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Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:24 pm
by jxalex
ninja6485 wrote: Uli discrediting Moog is like Suzuki discrediting Mercedes Benz: at the end of the day, people are still going to want that 500SL, and will still be willing to pay a little extra just to be associated with the brand.
just a little sidenote -- Suzuki is very wellknown for a worlds fastest motorcycles though. ;)
Mercedes is known as for very durable and reliable cars.

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:33 pm
by jxalex
supermel74 wrote:Would like to see Moog's real cost of reproducing the Minimoog and how it compares to the selling price.
THe end price always takes into account the engineering price too, but they also add in several other "fees".

So, it would be much more interest that engineering costs, and what salaries take the bosses and other ones who are between.
Details and producion ... how should bit it will be would be interesting to see compared to this. :)

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:47 pm
by madtheory
Are you all really so egotistical that you can't see that ninja's post absolutely nails it with logic and human nature? It's end of discussion with that post. Nicely done ninja.

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:47 pm
by phesago
I wouldnt considering the moog knock off theft by any means. The patent has ran out. Also, from a guy who owns moog stuff, i am interested in seeing a cheap desktop knock off too. I mean, honestly, who wouldnt be interested in it?

My initial reaction was like " giv -つ ◕_◕ ༽つ"

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:05 am
by commodorejohn
I've owned exactly one piece of equipment by Behringer. It was a little four or five-channel mixer, and it sounded like total a*s and clipped out in a junky digital way if you so much as looked at it funny. I don't see myself buying anything else from them any time soon, even if it is cheaper.

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:56 am
by Steve Jones
Deadringer seems to have a new moto: I want integrity and I'm willing to pay for it.

I am all for them producing affordable synths but a cheap piece of bottom end electronics hidden inside a case that is a copy of another brand's classic instrument is a marketing exercise, not a re-issue. To then publicly dis the people who had the vision and talent to create the instruments that Uli bottom-feeds off and copies because he lacks the skill to innovate or design his own products is extremely poor form.

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:00 am
by Steve Jones
commodorejohn wrote:I've owned exactly one piece of equipment by Behringer. It was a little four or five-channel mixer, and it sounded like total a*s and clipped out in a junky digital way if you so much as looked at it funny. I don't see myself buying anything else from them any time soon, even if it is cheaper.
And yet people never seem to learn that cheap, derivative, minimum specification junk is not a good buy. Something is not cheap if you have to buy it over and over because it was built with substandard parts and has such poor design tolerances that it soon self destructs. It also becomes landfill as it's so poorly made that it is not worth repairing. It has no resale value either.

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:20 am
by jxalex
commodorejohn wrote:I've owned exactly one piece of equipment by Behringer. It was a little four or five-channel mixer, and it sounded like total a*s and clipped out in a junky digital way if you so much as looked at it funny. I don't see myself buying anything else from them any time soon, even if it is cheaper.
Steve Jones wrote: And yet people never seem to learn that cheap, derivative, minimum specification junk is not a good buy. Something is not cheap if you have to buy it over and over because it was built with substandard parts and has such poor design tolerances that it soon self destructs. It also becomes landfill as it's so poorly made that it is not worth repairing. It has no resale value either.
I have learned that not everything is gold which is "made in japan" , "Made in U.S.A." or "Made in UK".
WIth the high end price it is piss-poor customer support, endless arguing, blood pressure troubles as they try to use every dirty trick in the book when these items cost 3000...5000 EUR and You are just a individual, not a institution.

But I think that I begin to fall in love with Behringer as I have got many c**p from high end manufacturers.

I just got in a routine by opening any Behringers box, reverse engineering, and voila, got working unit with a bargain price plus also specifications over their original datasheets and my own non-official upgrade.

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:53 am
by recordbot
isn't the behringer thing a knock off on the midimini? I'd like to see more from them so long as the stuff works, the thing is any axe you might buy should be measured by it's quality as an instrument, a quality instrument can be repaired by your local electronics repair man, if the axe you are bringing to market does not possess this quality it is not a quality instrument

and plenty of stuff from every manufacturer fits this bill, Polymoog I'm looking at you.

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:42 pm
by ninja6485
jxalex wrote:
ninja6485 wrote: Uli discrediting Moog is like Suzuki discrediting Mercedes Benz: at the end of the day, people are still going to want that 500SL, and will still be willing to pay a little extra just to be associated with the brand.
just a little sidenote -- Suzuki is very wellknown for a worlds fastest motorcycles though. ;)
Mercedes is known as for very durable and reliable cars.
I loved my Mercedes. Some lady tried to turn left I to oncoming traffic and totaled it! I had it for about 2 years, maybe a year and a half, and it generated about $7,000 worth of repairs in that time: air suspension, engine and transmission mounts, a $300 light bulb replacement (wtf?), The software that rolls the windows up, and on and on. While it was well built, and beautifully engineered, it was not neccesarily durable, and borderline unreliable. Mercedes always gave me a loaner though, and it was hitting the 8 to 10 years mark, so that sort of thing is to be expected, but it's not the Toyota cockroach I had for 20 years that only needed a water pump and a handful of belts. Again: well designed, well engineered, but not durable, and marginally unreliable.

madtheory wrote:Are you all really so egotistical that you can't see that ninja's post absolutely nails it with logic and human nature? It's end of discussion with that post. Nicely done ninja.
:drinks:

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:59 am
by Steve Jones
Behringer are corporate bullies and they know very well that Doug Curtis's wife and family, Tom Oberheim and other small companies cannot afford to take them on legally as Behringer will put 5 lawyers on the case and drag it through court until the company goes bankrupt from legal fees.

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:01 am
by jxalex
@ninja6845: I understood Your post well. :) I just saw that word -- Suzuki. It catched my eye as I am into motorcycles.

Here comes just my another alternative approach or view: what about 2-wheelers?
These car expenses are somewhat more than breathtaking if to compare to costs with motorcycle or moped and lucky that I am in need for a car just couple days in a year and then I also try to get away from it.

One my mutual friend says that "I rent out a room for guests only becouse this way I can have money for car as
I need every month 300 USD/EUR otherwise I could not afford a car".
Another thing... I have thought about getting a car too, but when I look in which troubles are my neighbours which are not only money related but also other nerve eating issues with cars, then I got a thought that I will stay with motorcycles, becouse my costs to motorcycles total is 1/10th compared to all the bills what my neighbour has to car, and we BOTH have the same needs and function -- to drive 60km in a day, and 99.9% of the time alone, no need to transport heavy objects.
I have no troubles as I drive all-round-year, also in extreme cold, well... nothing pops up in my mind as disturbing.
The only things which would protest against motorcycle ride would be delicate equipment like 6..8 octave keyboards. Girls would sit gladly even at the moped backseat even during wintertime when they are in love.
Biggest difference is still the free parking and other free benefits which are charged for car owners.
Whereas of course there are those who encourage me to drive a car too (guess who? ;) ), I have been such a role model that some got thought to begin driving motorcycle too like me, atleast the warm season, just to spare money.

If I would be in a big city then I would consider also moped with pagageboxes for everyday transport for long trips, or "old 30km/h moped" (besides it is drivers licence free!) which is allowed to drive on the bicycle lanes which are virtually free even at rush hour but faster and more accessible than highway during rush-hour. ;)
That way the travel would be cheapest and durable also compared to all means of the transport and aproximately 2..4 times cheaper compared to bus/train/metro depending on distance, and atleast 8 times cheaper compared to car.

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:17 pm
by madtheory
Steve Jones wrote:Behringer are corporate bullies and they know very well that Doug Curtis's wife and family, Tom Oberheim and other small companies cannot afford to take them on legally as Behringer will put 5 lawyers on the case and drag it through court until the company goes bankrupt from legal fees.
There is no bullying. The patents expired on all of those products. AND, DSI and Elektron have used the Behringer chips in their products.

Appeal to emotion is all very well, but the law is the law. If patents didn't expire, innovation would be stifled.

Good article on the facts here, with a summary of both sides of the argument.
http://www.factmag.com/2017/03/22/curti ... h-cloning/

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:50 pm
by wiss
The moment he releases the 2600 clone, every single one of us will be preordering that s**t and dreaming of recreating Star Wars sound designs.

Re: Uli Behringer's deeply concerning post

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:52 pm
by Hyde
As a luthier of high end guitars I found that the demand for musical instruments in the upper echelon is pretty sparse. Famous brands like Moog, if smart, can rely on their name & history to keep the doors open, & continue to push forward into the future.
The simple fact is that cheap, mass marketed instruments are the way of the future. Reason being, there is no money in music, anymore. Musicians are broke & looking for a quick fix in a smaller price tag. Why do you think Gibson has struggled with quality in the US market, while Fender have continued to succeed with a large portion of their product coming from import?
The descerning musician, few & far between, save their pennies & buy that one great piece of gear. 99% of the market amass stockpiles of junk or cheap used gear. It's the unfortunate dynamic of the current market.