knolan wrote:In this post (see URL below) on Gearslutz, Uli Behringer calls into question the costs associated with Moog production. Surely that constitutes an attack on Moog? Meanwhile, his company, in many instances, does no ‘blue-skies / exploratory’ R&D (is he even aware of the costs of true synthesiser R&D?); has a legacy of poor quality and of copying other companys' technology; and avails of the most dubious manufacturing practices in China - yet feels comfortable using all of that as the basis of an attack on the founding company in modern music synthesis
Get into electronics really! Get to know the details then you k now HOW MUCH it can be done cheaper and where from not to cut the quality. And after You have built yourself something look around in cellphone industry (especially how NOKIA does) if you want to talk about ethics -- and you see something really disgusting happening there!
But when it is about Bob Moog then now the other men are counting his money and the rest of the bunch got money from others sweat - Mr. Moog is dead, You know? So neither the synthesizer manufacturers know any respect towards customers. So, I see why not Behringer and other companies should take over who ever has interest to make copy.
IT really is worth to learn about some basic electronics and to know the components. Otherwise it is just rambling and praising that "becouse it is Sony". KNowing how things are done can give the insight what components must be used, how cheap it can be done and where the components must be much better. THere are cheap, better and very good and costy designs. Some products have flaws, it is just sometimes 1-2 faults why this or that products quality sucks. ALso there are products which have "reserved" some option for higher price class models, but can taken into use with tweaks but was not taken into use as it would cost more in production. But all can be tweaked and in result it is enjoyment for lifetime, and still with bargain price for those who know electronics in intermediate level.
Soundblaster at first was selling their GAMEPORT- MIDI converter with 150USD, whereas it had just less than 5USD components worth! Just using a simple logic chip, and CNY17 or other optotransistor require no special brand or manufacturer! But it means that there is never need to buy a expensive converter becouse it is Soundblaster brand.
JUst a side note of overpricing.
Behringer’s approach, rather than based on innovative new instrument, is based on attacking other companies, shedding doubt over their legacy and intent of running them out of business; meanwhile taking their technology and cloning it!
oh yeah, so you are attacking Behringer for making things affordable , becouse otherwise the other seven Moog middleman should get rich from others sweat who never ever designed something? no way! shareholders, investors, etc. whatever. If thats all whats left from Moog -- a bunch who counts money from others sweat and gets money becouse of the dead founder -- then why bother? THe remaining persons really have nothing to do with Moog!
DO You even know that Mr. Moog died over 10 years ago?
Let him be in peace. There is no need to pay for a overpriced synthesizer which money does not go for Mr. Moog but other seven middlemen who gets fatter, whatever way they disguise their "charity" program with schools or other caveats to softer others heart.
You act like copyright protector for a musician who is dead over 50 years and protecting others investors profit who know nothing about music. Neither perhaps You know about electronics in a sense that HOW MUCH CHEAPER CAN BE DONE, or can be done reliably without letting the quality suffer.
I have had problems even with other big company products, and if there are products, then there is no top class service, whatever if it is Canon. In this case hey, I welcome more these companies like Behringer.
perspective on the likes of Moog (and therefore all similar companies) - presents a bogus proposition that what Moog do can be done for one tenth the cost; and offers cheap copies of that technology as the route ahead.
And there is nothing wrong with that! Perhaps the XOXBOX is what You dislike too, as it is TB303 clone for 1/10 price, but not from Roland?
Have You ever built something? Have You ever inspected the components where and what is needed? I built 2 kits and I say it is working fine. And it sounds great, but neither I get why that TB303 should cost even 200USD.
If Behringer get their way, we'll suffer a generation of cheap junk from this outfit - at the expense of innovative companies they'll run out of business. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
comes to mind...
Tell these words to every major software companies instead who waste creative ressources!
I have already suffered becouse of the many things the software companies have done.Yet no one complaining so much, but insteads tells others to shut up who is whining.
When talking about ideology how things are done then
the only branch industry should close their bunker doors then those are M$ with its windows, Intel and EVERY software company who release their software before really fixing it and providing no offline help version and going along with every stupid change, and with its planned obsolence it results renderin obsolete all the useful expensive hardware which makes higher costs! And always their suggestion is - buy new, upgrade!
Just to keep you in the consumtion rat race.
What Behringer is doing is something like in the opposite way --- making affordable, by re-building OLD things. Software companies wont sell old products. Neither other synth manufacturers do old synths.
If Behringer can do the Jupiter 8 below 500 USD, while keeping the manufacturing in a good quality - go ahead, but it needs some technological changes at first to do it affordable.
THe trouble with Behringer is that yes they do in China, but perhaps a way too loose or low production quality. So - NB! Then no-one cant say bad-cheap-replica, if it is produced affordable way, but with very good schematic. But I am certain that persons like You would be whining even louder in this case --- a way too good replica.
AT LAST Behringer would, I hope, put an end of these overpriced praised companies with ridiculously overpriced MIC preamplifiers, summing mixers and so on whereas the schematic inside can be REALLY SIMPLE and the cheapest chinese tricks will do it as well! I hope it puts end an those who praises his 10 000 USD cost amplifier which is just ordinary stereo.
I say that becouse I am into electronics myself and I build things myself. I know how much the details cost, DAC modules should NOT cost even 100 USD !!!
I hate that they wont add service schematic, but otherwise I am very fond of their other reverse-engineered products and which in some way have achieved better results compared to the originals..
For me his post is worrying on so many levels. He presents to a forum likely dominated by young musicians a false
young musicians? Not really. Thats really false title. More it is like Hi-Fi forum of electronic illiterates.
Musicians do not sit in this kind of forums, but behind the instrument instead. They do not argue or praise that the 1500USD/meter speaker cables are worth buying, neither they praise this or that equipment brand.
dismantle the validity of Moog’s and others’ approach and cost-base needed to innovate, and will devalue the World’s legacy of astounding instruments; meanwhile flooding the market with cheap copies that we all know cannot be of quality if they cost nothing to build.
I am not into the production and certainly if the Behringer would keep the production quality better then You perhaps would be whining much louder?! The end product price would be just a little bit higher, but the reliability would be much better.
THe reason why I wont buy their more expensive components are the reason of production.
And it seems that You are also representing someone, but who? The manufacturing brands who overprice the components inside, but also keep the production in China?
If it worries You then I say that ATC is no better with its production in England.
I found a stuck piece of solderblob inside ATC SM75-150 worlds class middlerange speaker element. Surprised becouse of that what I found. That element It cost to me 330 GBP, bought 2015 and it is from the year 1987. Handycraft as we know for worlds class speaker elements!!!
So I have no belief to handycraft damn expensive brands anymore after this.