Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

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Re: Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

Postby clubbedtodeath » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:49 am

Pro5 wrote:I'd definitely take a Prophet 5 over a JP-6 if someone offered me them and I could only take one (and couldn't resell). In fact, all things considered I'd probably even taken a new prophet rev 2 over a Jupiter 6, it can do FAR more (other than multimode and Cross mod) and I think it actually sounds better overall, even with that curtis filter and DCOs. :o

I wasn't a big fan of the Prophet 08 but against the JP-6 and as a useful musical tool it would be preferable and the Rev gives it the knock out punch with the sub/waveshaping etc over the p'08, the JP-6 just seems to have a very narrow sweet spot and limited range of *usable* sound where it doesn't fizz out.

A Jd-800 with polysix (currently) makes a great alternative to a JP-6, but a Rev 2 put in there too would round it off... and all 3 would have cost me less than most JP-6s go for (at what I paid for the JD/Six).

It sounds like you need to try out a Rev 2.

I didn't like the Prophet 08 either. But I've owned a Rev 2 for a month, and don't feel I've lost out by not having a vintage poly instead: it's a good, well-rounded synth. There is individual waveshaping (for all the waveforms) per oscillator, but what's particularly neat is that can all be modulated through the extensive modulation matrix, so you can tie the wave shape to separate LFOs/aftertouch/pedal/etc. for some subtle effects. The sub oscillator does give it added thump, which is handy for warm Oberheim-type brass pads. On top of that, you've got the multitimbral sequence, which I find useful for patch experimentation.

Only thing I'd recommend against is getting the 8-voice; in multitimbral mode you're down to four notes (the 16 voice version will give you 8). You can upgrade later though, as I will be doing soon, when The Wife's not looking.

Cheers
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Re: Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

Postby plikestechno » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:01 pm

meatballfulton wrote:Having owned and sold a lot of vintage pieces years ago, all I will say is that some instruments do not live up to the hype once you finally have it in your hands. Everyone's tastes are different, buyer remorse on a vintage synth may be more common than folks like to admit.


This. The hunt is more exciting than the kill. It's been the same for me with record collecting. Longing for something is more exciting than having it. Only a rare few pieces of equipment that I've ever bought surpassed the excitement and lust when dreaming about it.

If the Jupiter 6 didn't have the Jupiter tag people wouldn't grumble and groan about it as much. I think a lot of people buy it expecting something else.
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Re: Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

Postby Pro5 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:57 pm

clubbedtodeath wrote:
Pro5 wrote:I'd definitely take a Prophet 5 over a JP-6 if someone offered me them and I could only take one (and couldn't resell). In fact, all things considered I'd probably even taken a new prophet rev 2 over a Jupiter 6, it can do FAR more (other than multimode and Cross mod) and I think it actually sounds better overall, even with that curtis filter and DCOs. :o

I wasn't a big fan of the Prophet 08 but against the JP-6 and as a useful musical tool it would be preferable and the Rev gives it the knock out punch with the sub/waveshaping etc over the p'08, the JP-6 just seems to have a very narrow sweet spot and limited range of *usable* sound where it doesn't fizz out.

A Jd-800 with polysix (currently) makes a great alternative to a JP-6, but a Rev 2 put in there too would round it off... and all 3 would have cost me less than most JP-6s go for (at what I paid for the JD/Six).

It sounds like you need to try out a Rev 2.

I didn't like the Prophet 08 either. But I've owned a Rev 2 for a month, and don't feel I've lost out by not having a vintage poly instead: it's a good, well-rounded synth. There is individual waveshaping (for all the waveforms) per oscillator, but what's particularly neat is that can all be modulated through the extensive modulation matrix, so you can tie the wave shape to separate LFOs/aftertouch/pedal/etc. for some subtle effects. The sub oscillator does give it added thump, which is handy for warm Oberheim-type brass pads. On top of that, you've got the multitimbral sequence, which I find useful for patch experimentation.

Only thing I'd recommend against is getting the 8-voice; in multitimbral mode you're down to four notes (the 16 voice version will give you 8). You can upgrade later though, as I will be doing soon, when The Wife's not looking.

Cheers


That's exactly what I'm going to do this week, and I'm 99% sure I'll be buying (Only the 8 voice for now as can get it for £1200 (new with free delivery) which is almost no brainer money!). I can see many improvements over the Prophet 08 (and for that matter over the 6/ob-6) and having listened to everything out there I can see the power is there, and there's no need for it sound harsh at all if you don't program it that way. If I do, I'll probably upgrade to 16 voices as and when I feel it hitting the limits. I'm more interesting in playing it than sequencing 2 sounds at once, but I know the layering for really fat pads with big chords would be awesome too (and not as do-able when down to 4 poly).

I said above it can't do 'multimode' like JP-6 which is half true, you can modulate the HP filter in the FX menu with an env or LFO or mod slot and have that sweep or set alongside the LP filter in 4 or 2 pole to mimic the bandpass sweeps and resonant hi pass stuff the jupiter 6 can do (well give or take a tone here or or there).

--------

edit: Have since owned Rev2 and it's a cool synth, but the filter and oscs do let it down for bread and butter analog stuff with proper weight/dimension, it's kinda flatter. It can make a ton of sounds, many pretty ones, many dark ones, like a prophet-lite, but vs the PROPHET 6 it felt lacking in a big way (for my sonic needs). Sold the rev2 and looking to buy a Prophet 6 (got one on loan and it took me a while to realise how good it is, you need to give it time because it's deceptively deep... looks simple and like you'd work out all it's sounds in an hour but no... the more you use it the better it gets, with rev2 the more I used it the more it let me down on 'real analog' aspects I look for, esp comparing to vintage analogs... filter, oscs... were weak in Rev2 and fine if you kept within the boundaries but could never properly push it like a really good analog. Prophet 6 goes all the way and sounds way better.

The Prophet 6 turned out to be what I've been looking for all along. PROPER analog weight/warmth, but lots of modern features and enough modulation/toys to make it very fun and better than JP-6 but much nicer sounding than Rev2/p08.

I prefer it to the OB-6 also which I've tried, which is nice but a bit too limiting and 'samey' and I'm much more a fan of the ability of the Prophet 6 to do way more great sounds and darker/moody pads and drones that the OB-6 is a bit too fizzy for (lightweight). OB-6 tone grates on me after a while and wouldn't want to use it all over an album but Prophet 6 is ideal for it as its sound is very flexible for almost any sound you can think of (inc bandpass filter sweeps with the two filters involved with the env at once)

Prophet 6 is much, much better sonic-ally and overall wise vs Jupiter 6. I don't even let the 4 octaves bother me, it's worth it. I can play it for hours and never get bored by its glorious tone.
Last edited by Pro5 on Mon May 28, 2018 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

Postby gcoudert » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:54 am

desmond wrote:I was never a fan of the Jupiter 6 - I don't like it's sound character, or the way it looks, or the controls, it's always been a bit "meh" for me. *Some* of that is the "it's not an 8" thing, as I *do* love the JP8, but then I also really like other Roland synths like the JX8P/JX10.


I agree. Back in the late 80s, just after the M1 and D50 came out, a few JPs appeared in my local shops for around FF4,500 (about £450). I was looking for a replacement for my Juno60 and JX3P, which had been stolen (I eventually got them back) and I tried that JP-6 for about two hours but it really didn't inspire me. I was expecting something like a JP-8 but it wasn't. I ended up getting a JX-8P with PG-800, which had more of a wow factor. That said, if I could afford a JP-6 now, I'd probably buy one.
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Re: Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

Postby Pro5 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:57 am

clubbedtodeath wrote:It sounds like you need to try out a Rev 2.


Update (and ot sorry), got a Rev 2 today, love it, great build quality, lovely interface, powerful spec, beautiful/interesting/exciting sound and looks gorgeous.


----

This is not a knock on rev2 which in many ways is a LOT of synth for the money and for its best stuff it is really good, a modulation monster and good for lots of 'background' sound and sequences. It just doesn't hold up to older analogs (inc other DCOs like JX-3P) when it comes to warmth, tone and vibe.

edit: Have since owned Rev2 and it's a cool synth, but the filter and oscs do let it down for bread and butter analog stuff with proper weight/dimension, it's kinda flatter. It can make a ton of sounds, many pretty ones, many dark ones, like a prophet-lite, but vs the PROPHET 6 it felt lacking in a big way (for my sonic needs). Sold the rev2 and looking to buy a Prophet 6 (got one on loan and it took me a while to realise how good it is, you need to give it time because it's deceptively deep... looks simple and like you'd work out all it's sounds in an hour but no... the more you use it the better it gets, with rev2 the more I used it the more it let me down on 'real analog' aspects I look for, esp comparing to vintage analogs... filter, oscs... were weak in Rev2 and fine if you kept within the boundaries but could never properly push it like a really good analog. Prophet 6 goes all the way and sounds way better.

The Prophet 6 turned out to be what I've been looking for all along. PROPER analog weight/warmth, but lots of modern features and enough modulation/toys to make it very fun and better than JP-6 but much nicer sounding than Rev2/p08.

I prefer it to the OB-6 also which I've tried, which is nice but a bit too limiting and 'samey' and I'm much more a fan of the ability of the Prophet 6 to do way more great sounds and darker/moody pads and drones that the OB-6 is a bit too fizzy for (lightweight). OB-6 tone grates on me after a while and wouldn't want to use it all over an album but Prophet 6 is ideal for it as its sound is very flexible for almost any sound you can think of (inc bandpass filter sweeps with the two filters involved with the env at once)

Prophet 6 is much, much better sonic-ally and overall wise vs Jupiter 6. I don't even let the 4 octaves bother me, it's worth it. I can play it for hours and never get bored by its glorious tone.
Last edited by Pro5 on Mon May 28, 2018 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Currently using (rating/10): SH2(9.5), JX-3P(9), Prophet 6(9), JD-800(8.5), Crumar Performer(?)
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Re: Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

Postby clubbedtodeath » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:14 pm

Pro5 wrote:Update (and ot sorry), got a Rev 2 today, love it, great build quality, lovely interface, powerful spec, beautiful/interesting/exciting sound and looks gorgeous.

:thumbright:

Great stuff, glad to hear it! I'd suggest updating the OS, so you get all the latest bug fixes/feature additions.
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Re: Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

Postby celebutante » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am

I'm a little late on this, but I owned a JP-6 for a few years (purchased back when you could get them for $800 all day long), and I felt the same way.I liked the features and how it looked, but I never really loved how it sounded; it always was a little squeaky clean and lacked ballsiness. Even in stacked unison mode, it was wide sounding, but not fat. The only thing I really liked was the laser noises I could with oscillator crossmod, but I eventually realized I had an $800 laser sound maker (I should've held onto it, then I could've sold a $2000 laser sound maker!).

I now own a Jupiter-4 that I like far more for a number of reasons, but mainly I just think it sounds better. That said, I'm obviously a different kind of player as the polyphony limitation doesn't bother me (I also have a lot of other synths in case I need more notes!).
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Re: Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

Postby knolan » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:54 pm

I own many polysynths - CS80, T8, P10, CS70M, Trident Mk2, J106, JD800,,,, and a Jupiter 6.

The way I look on it is - they all have their strengths and their weaknesses / limitations. Usually when I buy a new synth still in production I tend to notice their flaws and limitations. But as soon as an instrument is cancelled by a company, I usually shut down shop in caring about the instrument's limitations and start to focus on what it can bring to my setup. It's a weird psychological quirk - but it's really the case. I bought an OASYS when in production and spend may an evening picking holes in it, but as soon as Korg cancelled it, it started to gain more and more stature in my setup (and my mind)! So given the vintage status of the Jupiter 6, I only look at what it brings to my setup and really don't compare it to other instruments or pick holes in its character or capabilities.

As far as the Jupiter 6 goes - I really like it. It's a work horse. It's hugely flexible and versatile, has a sound of its own I like just as much as the sound of others and as importantly - contributes to a huge number of my pieces. I'm really glad I own it.

I put my synths through quite a lot of effects - chorus / symphonic effects, DDL and reverb - and in that context they all tend sound amazing - or at least deliver what I'm looking for, and the J6 is no different to my CS80 or Trident in that regard.

But here's what I particularly like about the Jupiter 6:

- perhaps the most versatile synths in my setup
- classic Roland sound (I don't know what people mean when they say they don't like the sound)
- Roland Modulation wheel which is totally different to Moog type wheels and allows for completely different performance characteristics. I accept that's on other Roland synths too and I also use it to great effect on the Juno106 - but it's amazing on a two oscillator synth.

I have only noticed in recent years that I happen to group synths into "twos" in my project studio. I never planned it - but across my room I notice it. So I use the Jupiter 6 with my CS40M in a lot of pieces - varying the sounds between sections - and it really works (for me). I also use the SY99 with a JD800. In this context, I actually adore the Jupiter 6 / CS40M combination - two of my own favourite pieces feature these synths in contrasting sections of those pieces. I kind of see them as inseparable at this stage - so I accept my view on the J6 is very subjective to my setup.

So my advice to you would be to try to give it more time or to try to find a better context for using it. Ultimately if it doesn't do anything for you then sure, sell it, but for me it just encompasses too much to be ever far from my focus.
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Re: Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

Postby Pro5 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:08 am

knolan wrote:Usually when I buy a new synth still in production I tend to notice their flaws and limitations. But as soon as an instrument is cancelled by a company, I usually shut down shop in caring about the instrument's limitations and start to focus on what it can bring to my setup. It's a weird psychological quirk - but it's really the case. I bought an OASYS when in production and spend may an evening picking holes in it, but as soon as Korg cancelled it, it started to gain more and more stature in my setup (and my mind)!


I think I do this as well, along with the mind-trick of generally owning old gear that won't lose money so it's never a factor. The Longer you keep it the more the price will rise on something half decent. Well maybe now there's a ceiling starting to appear on that but if you can get an old bargain it still counts.

When you buy something brand new you know it'll drop value, and look for flaws to convince yourself you don't need it. Sometimes they are obvious (like Rev 2s filter/osc weakness I mentioned above in my edited posts after owning one for six months or so), and can't be worked around, maybe if the rev2 cost say £500 10 years from now, used, I would automatically make allowances for it's flaws. When brand new i'm looking for nearer 'perfection' and, sonically, rev2 is far from that (for an analog synth - though it's a great synth in spite of itself I just don't feel it's a great ANALOG synth).

JD-XA suffered the same fate with me, as did Sub 37... 20 years from now when these are dusty, beat up and available for peanuts on ebay maybe someone like me would go easier on them, that said... I'm not sure, while they are all cool and make good music, I still don't like clutter or excess. I'm always trying to streamline and minimlise my setup, so far the Prophet 6 has been the only new/modern synth that's come close to being 'the one' to finally end the hunt. Even with the limits it has it has a vast range of sound and capabilities that I enjoy far more than dialing away on numerous LFOS and MOD SLOTS all night, only to arrive at a 'clever sound' that lacks some depth, some realness, some elemental nature that I only seem to find in great sounding analog synths (usually comes down to the filter mainly but also good to great oscs... ). Rev2 that is, but Prophet 6 has no issues there, it's like a dream synth, sonically, interface and (almost) feature wise. Sure it could use a little flexibility on the mod wheel, and some routing, and maybe an extra 12 keys, but it is what it is, and it can and does cover what 3-4 of my other synths do but in one compact high quality modern featured synth (USB/Sync LFO/FX etc).

I think the prophet 6 will be a future classic, and when Dave discontinues it, if he doesn't make a MKII, then it'll become highly sought after. To those that don't yet 'get it' or have judged it on presets or YT videos, it's a much better synth than many, inc myself, thought it was. But it takes a bit of time to see how wide its range is and that you can get pretty much any type of useful/vintagey/analog tone from it among all the other wacky, clangorous, sci fi, harder/modern stuff. I love that it sounds good even doing modern, and not thin or harsh like the 08/Rev2, not coated and toyish like JD-XA, and not shrill/fizzy like OB-6 (or plenty of other synths).

While it's new still, it's easy to say 'only 1 LFO, only 4 octaves, slightly stiffer VCOs than a 40 year old $6000 relative synth...' but it's already a bargain, at new prices.
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Re: Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

Postby clubbedtodeath » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:53 pm

It's funny how the features that turn one person off a synth, are exactly the same features that make it the one for another.

The Rev2 is my 'one' just now. Having said that, I wouldn't mind giving a Prophet 6 a go... :D

Cheers
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Re: Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

Postby meatballfulton » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:03 pm

What is "realness"? We are talking about synthesizers here, there's nothing "real" about them. If you mean that you can't modulate a thin patch into becoming a fat patch, I agree.

Still I'd rather have more modulation routings than many vintage machines offered. After using modulars and an Evolver I was spoiled.
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Re: Slight buyer's remorse on my Jupiter 6...

Postby KBD_TRACKER » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:43 pm

Get rid of it and then get:
(imo)
:happy3:
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