MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

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phesago
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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by phesago » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:02 pm

Dont get me wrong both look really nice, and I had planned on at least trying the behringer out...until roland announced their partnership with SE to bring us their version. I already preordered the roland one. Not too mention SE makes wonderful sounding synths. The boomstar series are pretty spectacular honestly. Even though roland might have smaller controls or whatever, i just feel liek theyre going to be better quality not to mention the boutique series all have midi control/ cc's. So I feel like the best bet might be the roland, if I am only looking at whats "on paper."

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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by meatballfulton » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:54 pm

Their business strategy appears to be lots of limited editions going forward. :?
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by Blue Monster 65 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:31 pm

I poked my head into the Behringer tent on Saturday of Gear Fest, but didn't think to check to see if their clone was there. I did get to play the Roland a bit. The controls are small, but manageable. I have to admit I didn't mess with the sequencer, but overall, the engine sounded good. As has been said before, not quite Moog, not quite Roland. I'd like to check it out again, without all the racket going on around me.

I do have to say I was way more intrigued by the Novation Reach, but that's nothing like these two.
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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by Neonlights84 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:35 pm

madtheory wrote:Ya I edited my post there when I learned about that transistor. Surely there's enough demand to get more of those manufactured. But I assume Moog have a business strategy here. Maybe they have something new up their sleeve- they are moving on from the MiniMoog, and ironically everyone else will have to catch up with them!
This will be the first time since the companies relaunch that they are not offering a Minimoog (Voyager/Model D) correct?
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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by meatballfulton » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:08 pm

Moog's business strategy appears to be keeping high volume/low cost products in production and low volume/high cost products in limited editions. That way they do not waste resources on inventory and space on the manufacturing line. They are a small company and can only handle offering a small number of products at the same time. DSI is similar...that's why they dropped the Evolvers, Mopho, Tetra, etc. so they could take on new stuff like the Prophet 6 and OB-6.
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by Broadwave » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:33 am

clubbedtodeath wrote:If the B*hringer has background hiss and bleed over that some of their other products have had in my personal experience, then I'll give it miss.
The Minimoog thrives on VCO crosstalk, VCA bleed and hiss. The signal path is full of design faults that could have been corrected during it's history, but wasn't because "character" ;)

EDIT: Behringer have already released the schematics for their Model D - I'm just giving them a going over and comparing them to the originals. :ugeek:

I've gone over them, and apart from some obvious transistor substitutes, everything seems very good and true to the original (more so that the SE-02) - The VCOs are the 3046 matched transistor version (1972-1978), which I'm very happy with and the PW divider chain is still there with no trimmer adjustment (so no perfect 50% square waves - Good!). The additional LFO is a nice design, as are the external Mod sources/Mix. The only real big difference is in the headphone amp, which is completely different, but I can't really see that being a problem.

I'm pretty happy with what I can see - Just get them into the stores ASAP ;)
Last edited by Broadwave on Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by clubbedtodeath » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:05 am

meatballfulton wrote:Moog's business strategy appears to be keeping high volume/low cost products in production and low volume/high cost products in limited editions. That way they do not waste resources on inventory and space on the manufacturing line. They are a small company and can only handle offering a small number of products at the same time. DSI is similar...that's why they dropped the Evolvers, Mopho, Tetra, etc. so they could take on new stuff like the Prophet 6 and OB-6.
That makes a lot of sense. Also I think both are keen not to repeat themselves. Maybe that's what the Special Editions help fund?
Broadwave wrote:The Minimoog thrives on VCO crosstalk, VCA bleed and hiss. The signal path is full of design faults that could have been corrected during it's history, but wasn't because "character" ;)
Ha. Good for synths, not so good for mixers..

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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by blueknob » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:03 am

Thanks for the info Broadwave, I found the circuits too via Geatslutz where Uli shares his things, photos of the circuit board too, this is an interesting stratergy. He's letting us inspect the product in great detail so we can argue the "for and against" based on fact rather than bias and opinion. He knows many of us can read/understand/design these things so who better to do a peer review!? He's offered that as a public peer review making himself open to all kinds of abuse, that takes some self-belief.
This tends to give me extra confidence all round. I'm actually impressed Uli has adopted this approach, how many other compaines do that? (awaits to be corrected :roll: )

I have to say, Uli has really stepped to the front regards innovation, accessibility and better still, bringing us things we want!!(and can afford) I feel we are in an exciting time, just as in the 1980's when the American/Japanese manufacturers were bringing us great things. Now that is special.

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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by minime123 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:41 pm

blueknob wrote:Thanks for the info Broadwave, I found the circuits too via Geatslutz where Uli shares his things, photos of the circuit board too, this is an interesting stratergy. He's letting us inspect the product in great detail so we can argue the "for and against" based on fact rather than bias and opinion. He knows many of us can read/understand/design these things so who better to do a peer review!? He's offered that as a public peer review making himself open to all kinds of abuse, that takes some self-belief.
This tends to give me extra confidence all round. I'm actually impressed Uli has adopted this approach, how many other compaines do that? (awaits to be corrected :roll: )

I have to say, Uli has really stepped to the front regards innovation, accessibility and better still, bringing us things we want!!(and can afford) I feel we are in an exciting time, just as in the 1980's when the American/Japanese manufacturers were bringing us great things. Now that is special.
well... Uli started bragging that he could make an odyssey knockoff very cheap and then Korg released their Odyssey. Then he presented us with his prototype of his low cost model D minimoog clone and roland completely blew it away with the roland studio electronics SE-2. i wonder how far along behringer came to actually manufacturing their model D. the behringer discounted pre-order seemed like a move that was made out of desperation, under the circumstances. i see the behringer D is no longer listed on sweet water. have they decided against putting it into production now? all these reissues are incredibly lame. we already have enough vintage model D's out there. many of the people who buy them want vintage instruments for nostalgic reasons. if youre gonna invest the resources in manufacturing a new piece of music technology, it should do something different than an instrument released around 40 years ago.
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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by HideawayStudio » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:02 am

minime123 wrote: and roland completely blew it away with the roland studio electronics SE-2.
Wow - A real analog, have Roland finally woken up to the party!??

An interesting collaboration too...

I like the Studio Electronics gear - I often think it doesn't get the exposure it deserves. I have had an Omega 8 in the studio for many years now - its built like a tank, is a wonderfully discrete and old-school PTH design and is a joy to program. I doubt I'd ever part with it!

...it also means its still likely to be serviceable in 30 years time - not so sure an MS20m will be with all those goo filled SMT EL caps and 'orrible wobbly ALPS pots! ;)

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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by Rokk » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:40 am

I have a feeling the tuning stability and pitch tracking will be better on Behringer. I had SE ATC-1 which had such an erratic tracking it was basically unusable and I had to get rid of it. And since I'm not much of a step sequencer I'm more interested in Behringer.

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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by meatballfulton » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:49 pm

It is strange that for new analogs Roland has turned to boutique manufacturers rather than doing it in-house like Korg.
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by blueknob » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:02 pm

minime123 wrote:... if youre gonna invest the resources in manufacturing a new piece of music technology, it should do something different than an instrument released around 40 years ago.
mini
:D
It's business dood, give the people what they want!

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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by ApolloBoy » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:53 am

HideawayStudio wrote:all those goo filled SMT EL caps
Errr isn't that how most electrolytic caps are?
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Re: MiniMoog bargain clone wars heat up

Post by HideawayStudio » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:24 am

ApolloBoy wrote:
HideawayStudio wrote:all those goo filled SMT EL caps
Errr isn't that how most electrolytic caps are?
Of course, but if you've ever repaired a bunch of failed/failing camcorders or countless Amiga 600s with a sea of these things in you will know the sheer mess they can make of pcbs when they start to leak!

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