Page 1 of 2

Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:40 am
by gmeredith
I'm about to buy a CZ5000 from someone I know :D

Tell me everything there is to know about it - patches, tips and tricks, modifications, resource sites etc.

I have a CZ101 and SZ-1 sequencer - how hugely different is it to this??

Cheers, graham

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:21 am
by madtheory
To be honest it is not a huge upgrade from what you have now. You're already familiar with the SZ-1, so it's double that. Pretty cool sequencer, as you know. It's pretty much double a CZ-101 as well. In Tone Mix you get two voice polyphony, woohoo. You have better control over vibrato in a patch. You can disable it completely with the switch by the Mod Wheel, and you have a Mod Wheel :) You get 32 user patch memories, but you cannot use the cartridge as extra memory like on the CZ-101. You always have to load what is on the cartridge into the user memories, which replaces all 32 of your patches :( Oh and it has chorus. Which is really not a great one. It's just OK. Almost anything else is better.

It is exactly the same DAC and op amps inside as the 101, so there's no difference in sound quality as long as it is calibrated to factory spec. There's a simple DAC offset adjustment in the service manual. IME it is the number one cause of shitty sounding CZs, and it is an easy fix as long as you're OK with disassembly- you have to lift out the keybed and one large board to get at the trimmer for this IIRC. So maybe check the electrolytic caps while you're in there?

CZ-5000 uses batteries to retain memory in the same way as the CZ-101, but they're AA so much lighter! Won't make much difference, this is a heavy synth. Not as heavy as the FZ-1, but it is solid.

Obviously you get up to 16 note poly compared to the 101's max of 8. And honestly, there are far more sounds available using two lines than one, so most of the time our CZ-101s are 4 note poly. But like the 101 the CZ-5000 is not polyphonic via MIDI when multitimbral. You only get 8 monophonic channels, twice the 101's 4. But it is properly multitimbral with its own sequencer. Ya, these are the strange things manufacturers did in the early days of MIDI! Oh, and all the sounds come out of one output. On the CZ-1 you have two assignable mono outputs, woohoo! The CZ-1 is the beeskness of CZs. If you're a fan of the sound you will love that. Better than a VZ-1 in many ways, although it doesn't have the dynamic range of that synth.

What I'd love to know is if you can load a sequence saved to data-tape on the SZ-1 into the CZ-5000 sequencer, and the other way around too?

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:37 pm
by gmeredith
Wow that's a lot of great info, Mad! I checked your website out, too - lots of CZ stuff there, I learnt heaps :)

Does the CZ5000 do sysex dumps of the sequencer only? or does everything get dumped all at once? Meaning, can it receive sysex just for the sequencer data?

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:53 pm
by madtheory
IIRC technically yes, sysex save and load of sequencer data is possible, it's written in the MIDI spec. But you would have to figure out how to send the dump request from the computer. AFAIK no-one ever did that for the sequencer data. But you can of course save and load banks of patches, or individual patches. Most librarians allow you to inter-change CZ-101/3000/5000/ 1 patches and banks as well.

Or you could just connect the data tape output to the audio in of your computer. It's a 7 pin DIN but a 5 pin will get you the audio i/o just fine. The extra pins are additional ground and remote control- not needed for the computer :) 8 bit 11kHz WAV is fine. Or 16 bit 44.1kHz WAV. Don't use MP3, that will corrupt the data.
Image

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:18 pm
by Rasputin
Casio CZ-5000 SysEx Sequencer String = F0 44 00 00 70 14 61 70 31 70 31 70 31 70 31 70 31 70 31 70 31 70 31 70 31 70 31 70 31 70 31 F7

as per: http://www.tinyloops.com/doc/casio_cz-5 ... encer.html

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:00 pm
by madtheory
O wow, cool! What's an "ack"? Seems a bit unreliable that you can't query the CZ about how much sequencer data there is?

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:53 pm
by Rasputin
madtheory wrote:O wow, cool! What's an "ack"? Seems a bit unreliable that you can't query the CZ about how much sequencer data there is?
It's networking/comm speak for acknowledgement. There's a handshaking routine if you want to be graceful about it, but that previous string is the easy one-size-fits-all quick way.

So instead of saying, "yes, I got your packet, go ahead and send the next" for each time the CZ is ready, you just bomb it with "okay, okay, okay, okay" over and over even if there's nothing more to send. Brute force.

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:28 am
by gmeredith
That's great info! I'll play around with it and see what I can do. I bought the CZ - my band mate picked it up and is bringing it over during the week.

I just realised that I have the CZ5000 service manual - here it is on my band website, if any one is interested:

http://www.warningwillrobinson.com.au/manuals

Click on the "view all manuals" link up the top of the page to see my full list and the 5000.

On p3, there are schematics for the stereo chorus unit. I thought it might be interesting if the chorus could be hacked to give more control, like mod speed or resonance as well as the depth control provided.

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:03 pm
by madtheory
Awesome, would be cool to see if SZ1 and CZ5000 sequencer data is interchangeable. I love the step sequencing on the CZ. But I can do exactly the same thing in Pro Tools now, with more note values (CZ is a bit c**p at triplets). But CZ FTW with the dedicated buttons :)

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:38 am
by gmeredith
I got it today. It's surprisingly big and beefy! Not at all like the teeny cute CZ101.

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:14 am
by crystalmsc
Don't forget the VirtualCZ which can be used as a SYSEX editor/librarian for the CZ-5000, which is also a very nice CZ-1 emulation.

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:03 pm
by madtheory
gmeredith wrote:I got it today. It's surprisingly big and beefy! Not at all like the teeny cute CZ101.
Yes it's solid, like the FZ-1 but without the excellent high spec and heavy PSU that has.

Ya VCZ is probably the best editor ever. It's not a CZ-1 though!! No layering. And it doesn't load OP MEMs from a CZ-1. Only patches.

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:01 am
by gmeredith
So does the CZ5000 also save OP MEMs in the same way as the CZ1?

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:41 am
by madtheory
No. CZ-5000 doesn't have any OP MEMs. It has more limited layering than the CZ-1, with the TONE MIX button. What you don't get is separate outputs, chorus on off stored, level adjustment and detuning. CZ-1 has 64 patch memories and 64 operation memories (layers and splits in Casio speak).

Layering is just a wonderful and easy way to make new sounds. It was my favourite thing on the CZ-1, having lived with the CZ-5000 for so long. I think it's a real shame it's not included on the new Prophet and OB synths, because back in the day it was the killer feature on the OBs versus the Prophet.

Re: Getting a Casio CZ5000 - hit me up on all the goodness!

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:02 pm
by gmeredith
So it sounds like the CZ-1 is more like my VZ10M, which arranges things that way. Was the CZ-1 later than the CZ5000?