Poly Aftertouch WTF???

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atom
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Post by atom » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:13 am

premieklovn wrote:i feel stupid. After being here for a while I still don't quite know what aftertouch is.
Whats the norwegian word for that Bitexion?
the bible of midi.

http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tech/midispec.htm

explains nicely what's aftertouch, channel pressure and everything else.
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Post by felis » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:51 am

portland wrote:
felis wrote: Many boards costing thousands of dollars don't have release velocity.
Heh, hardly anybody knows about that. The Roland D70 and Kawai K4 and the Prophet T8 and Alesis QS are the only ones I know of..
You can also count Waldorf Q, Access Virus and Kurzweil among the enlightened.

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Post by shaft9000 » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:28 am

Bitexion wrote:Absolutely, Shaft9000.

You can use the CS-80V exactly the way Vangelis does with an SQ-80. I just got one myself, and it works like a dream. But Poly AT sends out ALOT of info on the MIDI cables.

You press each individual key harder and the effect only affects that single key. For instance, you could only make the last note in a chord bend pitch upwards.
Or increase filter brilliance on each key in a chord one by one. Very nice effect.It's like every note in the chord "jumps out". If you did that with a normal AT keyboard, the brilliance would affect all the keys held down.

A good thing with the Ensoniq's is that you have 9 different pressure sensitivities, so you can decide how heavy or light you press to activate AT. On the very lightest setting you can hardly press the key to the bottom without activating the aftertouch.

One drawback is that there seems to be a metal strip underneath the keyboard (something with the Poly AT) so the keyboard makes a loud clackety noise all the time. The SQ-80 is a fabulous synth in itself, with 3 oscillators, analog curtis filter (same as Prophet VS), 3VCA's, 4 envelopes and 3 LFO's. And 80 waveforms on each oscillator.

Thanks for the testimonial, Bitexion. I'll look into getting the best shape Ensoniq board I can find.
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older Roland controllers have it

Post by Dunewar » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:55 am

I remember that older Roland controllers have polyphonic aftertouch (the A30-A90 if I remember correctly). I was looking for those because I have a XV module that supports polyphonic aftertouch. But alas, even on ebay those controllers still fetch quite a lot of money (and they show up rarely). And there is no contemporary alternative that I know of.

I don't think there's a problem with MIDI and poly AT, as long as you don't chain your synths. But you'd better reserve a midi port for one synth when you are using poly AT, otherwise you'll run against the upper limits of what midi can do.

It's funny, most modules can take Poly AT, but no keyboards can give it.....


Question : what is release velocity?
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Re: older Roland controllers have it

Post by OriginalJambo » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:09 am

Dunewar wrote:Question : what is release velocity?
It's how quickly or slowly you release the key. So if you gently slide off the key it'll give you a low velocity value and if you remove your fingers from the key instantly you'll get a high velocity value.

For example, if you used it to modulate the amplitude envelope's release segement, then you could control release times by how quickly you remove your hands from the keys after playing them.

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Re: older Roland controllers have it

Post by atom » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:21 am

Dunewar wrote:I remember that older Roland controllers have polyphonic aftertouch (the A30-A90 if I remember correctly). I was looking for those because I have a XV module that supports polyphonic aftertouch. But alas, even on ebay those controllers still fetch quite a lot of money (and they show up rarely). And there is no contemporary alternative that I know of.

I don't think there's a problem with MIDI and poly AT, as long as you don't chain your synths. But you'd better reserve a midi port for one synth when you are using poly AT, otherwise you'll run against the upper limits of what midi can do.

It's funny, most modules can take Poly AT, but no keyboards can give it.....
implementing it ina keyboard mechanizm takes as many pressure detectors as there are keys, to mimplement it on the
module side it takes a few lines of code in a PIC and it's just another 0-127 value to modulate whatever parameter you want.
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Post by Sealed » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:10 am

As YOOZER pointed out, the MIDI bandwidth limitation is the problem.

Just look at a MIDI monitor while playing a poly-AT keyboard. You'll see a lot of data stream. When you push the keys, every subtle fluctuation of your finger is translated and transmitted as polyphonic aftertouch.

It's fun to play poly-AT keys. But in some cases it can cause problems, especially when you're playing multi-track MIDI sequence.

Unfortunately, many manufacturers would not like to implement something that can be unreliable, if sometimes.

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Post by fingerbib2000 » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:12 am

JUGEL wrote:I found it very strange when I was looking for a new MIDI controller ... almost none had aftertouch.

That's why I had to go with the cheapo E-MU. Works great.
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Post by atom » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:48 pm

in most cases channel pressure is enough, it's not polyphonic but the possibilites are similar.
most modern midi controller have that, not the polyphonic type.
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Post by UTEPguy » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:40 pm

Yo, I feel bad... Fantom X doesnt have release velo. But I have a question: What is release time offset?
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New Roland Controller

Post by cbjlietuva » Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:09 pm

wow this thread is kinda old- hope someone's still watching it.
Maybe most of you know this-

I've been searching for a new MIDI controller with Polyphonic aftertouch, and I found one, and not too bad of a price either-

the new Roland/Edirol PCR 300, 500, and 800, all have channel and polyphonic aftertouch modes. click here to see the prices at Nova Musik. $250 for the 300 (32 keys) $300 for the 500 (49 keys) and $350 for the 800 (61-keys)... it's USB as well- I don't know but I would speculate that the bandwidth shouldn't be too much of an issue there... unless it's just a built-in MIDI-USB conveter... in that case.. whatever man :P it's poly AT and it's NEW with a warranty
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Re: New Roland Controller

Post by felis » Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:27 pm

cbjlietuva wrote:.....the new Roland/Edirol PCR 300, 500, and 800, all have channel and polyphonic aftertouch modes......


Wasn't sure if I could believe that, so I took a quick look at the midi implementation chart here:

http://www.roland.com/products/en/_supp ... 0272&dsp=1

Looks like it sends channel and polyAT as well as release velocity. Might be worth picking one up. Thanks for the tip. :wink:

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Re: New Roland Controller

Post by cbjlietuva » Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:46 pm

felis wrote:
cbjlietuva wrote:.....the new Roland/Edirol PCR 300, 500, and 800, all have channel and polyphonic aftertouch modes......


Wasn't sure if I could believe that, so I took a quick look at the midi implementation chart here:

http://www.roland.com/products/en/_supp ... 0272&dsp=1

Looks like it sends channel and polyAT as well as release velocity. Might be worth picking one up. Thanks for the tip. :wink:
no prob! i've been searching for a long time- a slim chance to find an A-80 or a Kurzweil MIDIboard.

so what's the "important" difference(s) between the PCR-x0 and the PCR-x00 series? is it just the ammount assignable pots and faders?
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Post by kayvon » Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:38 pm

I wouldn't get your hopes up, on the Edirol UK website it says the keyboard has channel aftertouch. Are you sure it's not just the knobs/faders that can send it?

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Post by felis » Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:46 pm

You really have to do some digging to find out that kind of stuff. Most of the boards that have PP or RV, it's not included in the websites, advertising, or brochures. Probably the marketing people don't know what it is, or don't think most people think it's important. :evil:

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