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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:39 am
by mirt
if you want realy unique drums try to find some soviet drum synths.

i have:
lel drums - soviet electronic percussion
pr 6020 - something like tr808 but made in poland with great lo lo fi digital cymbals.
bohm drum machine - similar to linn drum
dynacord percuter

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:20 pm
by novielo
tyler, the mdp-40 sound damn good in your song. i<ll look for one for sure.

thanks mirt i<ll get a look on that. i realy like when it<s unusual sounds. and i<ve always like soviet stuff :lol:

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:07 am
by ThinkTanx
nadafarms wrote: Check out the future retro XS processing it:

:shock:

And the 909 being processed by the XS... again... :shock:

Re: your drum machine

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:10 pm
by Xigronaus
I am a newbie here and fairly new to the synthesizers’ obsession world (about a year), but this forum and site has been certainly the most valuable resource in the entire web. Your comments and discussions saved me a lot of money, time and effort folks 

However, considering drum machines, I see that there is a wide and very diverse spectrum of opinions and approaches. And I got into the point when I want to get a good drum machine, and for the last few months I kind of failed. I currently have ES-1 mkII stuffed with some vintage drum machines samples and SCI Drumtraks (with 26 extra EPROM’s) but I am not happy with my drums. It lacks flexibility, tweak-ability, punchy, noisy, industrial/dark electro distorted beat that I need in a compact form with a good sequencer and MIDI onboard, and some additional outputs. Outputs in Drumtraks are helpful but it is big/heavy, clumsy and the real time approach doesn’t work well (plus its MIDI implementation sucks, even after Wine Country OS upgrade). ES-1 is cool for easy and quick interface, but again limited editibility and lack of extra outputs kills it, plus those samples are just… not wicked enough… I had TR-505, Drumstation, MC-505, but they all didn’t meet my expectations. Software synths are not an option as well – I agree with the hands-on-knobs approach.

So from your discussion, I see that three options are in dominant position: TR-808/909, Machinedrum and Xbase 09/888/999. TR range is too expensive for me, considering parameters/price ratio, and I would have to stuff it with retrofits to make it useful for my setup. So Machinedrum or Jomox? Breitt’s ‘drum-identity’ comparison from June 2007 between MD and 999 is very good and almost answers my question, but I am anxious about those gossips of buggy and clumsy 999 interface. And I need simple and user friendly interface, something I can turn on and use without diving too deep into complex manual algorithms… MD looks great on the paper, considering all options and parameters. Xbase 999 looks great considering analogue taste that Breitt was pointing as a winning advantage for this one… I don’t know… I would prefer to spend no more than £700 on this, but price of those two is not that far away... What do you think about it?

Re: your drum machine

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:40 pm
by kuroichi
I sold the MD and my 999, now I just use my 909.

If I had to choose, even though I love analog sounds, I would get an MD, as the 999 was just too volatile and too buggy.

something I never thought I would say...

I would say you have to get UW version MD, but that makes it very pricey, more so than a 909 or 808, which is way over £700.

It depends on your overall sound really, but the whole digital clean stuff can be changed with some good processing so theres no reason why you cant get past it.

one thing to consider is that the 999 can be a headache because of the OS issues, but the MD cant do analogue.

Re: your drum machine

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:26 pm
by breitt
Xigronaus wrote:Xbase 999 looks great considering analogue taste that Breitt was pointing as a winning advantage for this one… I don’t know… I would prefer to spend no more than £700 on this, but price of those two is not that far away... What do you think about it?
Welcome, Xigronaus.
Well, just to update here, I ended up selling the 999 after a few months last year. The interface just turned me off too much. To retain that analogue flavor while keeping most of my sanity intact, I opted for the Xbase 09. Great sound, great price and many less headaches than the 999. Think of it as a stripped down 999, but much more affordable and relatively easy to use. It still has a bit of that Jomox interface nuttiness, but is still much simpler than the 999. I found that the extra bells and whistles the 999 offered just were not worth its additonal hassles and dollars. You should be able to find an excellent conditon 09 on ebay for $550-$900.

Re: your drum machine

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:30 pm
by JSRockit
what didn't you like about the 999's interface. I've heard people complain about the 888 as well and since I got mine, I haven't found anything that has been that much of a pain... though I haven't used it that much yet. I mean, they are drum machines...and drum machines are relatively simple to deal with. I guess there are some weird modes and what not, but a few weeks of working with them should make them second nature no?

Re: your drum machine

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:49 pm
by breitt
JSRockit wrote:what didn't you like about the 999's interface. I've heard people complain about the 888 as well and since I got mine, I haven't found anything that has been that much of a pain... though I haven't used it that much yet. I mean, they are drum machines...and drum machines are relatively simple to deal with. I guess there are some weird modes and what not, but a few weeks of working with them should make them second nature no?
WOW! Never thought I'd see you with a Jomox, JS. Congratulations! The 999 was easy and straightforward in terms of laying down a simple beat, however, in trying to use some of its more esoteric functions, it's just too difficult and interrupts the workflow. One quote off of the Gearslutz site from a new user aptly illustrates the unintuitive nature of some of the unit's "higher" functions:
"OK I got my 999 today and I need a little help figuring out if it is broken or if I am retarded. Could be either one. So my problem is that when trying to enable the filter
the step buttons will not work. I am following the manual, SHIFT/CANCEL AND THEN STEP 8...NOW GO TO PATTERN WRITE MODE... SELECT FILTER...OK so all that works but then you are supposed to use the step buttons to program the filter but the step buttons do not do any thing by that point! Anyone know what's going on?"


There were just too many scenarios like this that made it feel that the 999 was impractical for me. The 888, however, is getting better reviews in terms of its usabiltiy, so it may be a perfect solution.

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:50 pm
by Xigronaus
breitt wrote: (...) I opted for the Xbase 09. Great sound, great price and many less headaches than the 999. Think of it as a stripped down 999, but much more affordable and relatively easy to use. It still has a bit of that Jomox interface nuttiness, but is still much simpler than the 999. I found that the extra bells and whistles the 999 offered just were not worth its additonal hassles and dollars. You should be able to find an excellent conditon 09 on ebay for $550-$900.
Thanks for your reply Breitt. I was a bit worried about Xbase 09 because of this 3 voice polyphony. Its anyway mostly about kick, snare and hi-hat, but some nice clap would be... nice :-) However, it might be an option, its fairly cheap, plus the DIN-sync out is an advantage, if I decide to plug some older gear to make up for other sounds.

After I posted I actually went to Rubadub in Glasgow to play around MD-UW and its certainly a serious one. And it's so small as well - you expect it to be much bigger from the photos! I only maybe tweaked it for a half an hour but it feels good, and there is A LOT in it. I am wondering what is the learning curve for machinedrum to be able to tweak it fast, real-time... A month? A year?...
kuroichi wrote: I would say you have to get UW version MD, but that makes it very pricey, more so than a 909 or 808, which is way over £700. It depends on your overall sound really, but the whole digital clean stuff can be changed with some good processing so theres no reason why you cant get past it. one thing to consider is that the 999 can be a headache because of the OS issues, but the MD cant do analogue.
Thanks Kuroichi. I think I will pass with 888/999, but I am still not 100% sure about MD. Maybe, as Breitt suggested, I will try Xbase 09 for a start and see how it goes...

Re: your drum machine

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:05 am
by diezdiazgiant
my drums tend to be a pretty blunted affair with ableton and kontakt- i tend to start off with a sample from a some record, truncate it in kontakt across some keys and use abletons to arpeggiator to get a basic 4/4 loop going trying out different play orders, band pass filter the lows out of it, and start layering new virtual racks with samples of vintage drum machines and second long snippets taken out of context set to the same key as the arp or set up albino 3 to recieve the same midi signals as kontakt, bus all this s**t to 4 sends 2 dry and the other 2 with something like some heavy fuzz on the bass and bitcrushing on the highs and just f**k around with the faders and cross fading the sends with each other. and resample resample resample the results. i like that live on the faders approach to get moving percussion sounds.

haha short answer - abletons arp, kontakt, and decent dj/midi controller. :mrgreen:

Re: your drum machine

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:02 am
by Xigronaus
diezdiazgiant wrote:my drums tend to be a pretty blunted affair with ableton and kontakt- i tend to start off with a sample from a some record, truncate it in kontakt across some keys and use abletons to arpeggiator to get a basic 4/4 loop going trying out different play orders, band pass filter the lows out of it, and start layering new virtual racks with samples of vintage drum machines and second long snippets taken out of context set to the same key as the arp or set up albino 3 to recieve the same midi signals as kontakt, bus all this s**t to 4 sends 2 dry and the other 2 with something like some heavy fuzz on the bass and bitcrushing on the highs and just f**k around with the faders and cross fading the sends with each other. and resample resample resample the results. i like that live on the faders approach to get moving percussion sounds.
Thats very interesting approach diezdiazgiant although I assume it might be a bit time consuming. But you certainly coming up with something completely unique. Wonder if you got some of this 10 times resampled samples to show? I am very curios of the results.

Re: your drum machine

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:23 pm
by JSRockit
breitt wrote:One quote off of the Gearslutz site from a new user aptly illustrates the unintuitive nature of some of the unit's "higher" functions:
"OK I got my 999 today and I need a little help figuring out if it is broken or if I am retarded. Could be either one. So my problem is that when trying to enable the filter
the step buttons will not work. I am following the manual, SHIFT/CANCEL AND THEN STEP 8...NOW GO TO PATTERN WRITE MODE... SELECT FILTER...OK so all that works but then you are supposed to use the step buttons to program the filter but the step buttons do not do any thing by that point! Anyone know what's going on?"


There were just too many scenarios like this that made it feel that the 999 was impractical for me. The 888, however, is getting better reviews in terms of its usabiltiy, so it may be a perfect solution.
Wow, yeah, that would be annoying. I'm sure I'll find things that annoy me about the 888...but so far the sound is not one of them.

Re:

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:29 pm
by hyphen nation
Xigronaus wrote: After I posted I actually went to Rubadub in Glasgow to play around MD-UW and its certainly a serious one. And it's so small as well - you expect it to be much bigger from the photos! I only maybe tweaked it for a half an hour but it feels good, and there is A LOT in it. I am wondering what is the learning curve for machinedrum to be able to tweak it fast, real-time... A month? A year?...
I have had mine for about a month now, and all I can say is I have made more music [loosing sleep, as it seems to suddenly be like 1:30-2:00am when I realize I am tired] since I got it, and I don't sense slowing down.

I had a SPS-1 on long term loan for a while, but even that super easy to learn how to use. The things are really just beautifully designed machines. Well laid out menus, deep synthesis and control, and for me, while not an analog drum, it has a really lovely sound...I can go from spacey to agro pretty easily...all in the box...add in the midi machines [sequencing other gear] and I am super happy...Until I got this, I was not 100% convinced on the evolver, but he the midi machines makes me love the pairing of the evolver and the MD...

I think the only real problem with the MD is that you will want to get the MonoMachine too...I am trying to figure out my long term studio budget to include a Monomachine, and hopefully a Linndrum ii when it finally makes if off the drawing board...common second economic stimulus check...common US Gov't, I got reamed by taxes this year...hook a brother up with some of his hard earned $$$

Re: your drum machine

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:52 pm
by Xigronaus
hyphen nation wrote: I have had mine for about a month now, and all I can say is I have made more music [loosing sleep, as it seems to suddenly be like 1:30-2:00am when I realize I am tired] since I got it, and I don't sense slowing down.

I had a SPS-1 on long term loan for a while, but even that super easy to learn how to use.

I think the only real problem with the MD is that you will want to get the MonoMachine too...I am trying to figure out my long term studio budget to include a Monomachine, and hopefully a Linndrum ii when it finally makes if off the drawing board...common second economic stimulus check...common US Gov't, I got reamed by taxes this year...hook a brother up with some of his hard earned $$$
Thats probably what I would look for hypen nation. I have heard that when you get into MD you slowly moving toward buying Monomoachine. Evolver with MD seems to be like a nice hookup anyway. Good luck with your tax stuff mate! Hope it all goes well. I am getting closer to make the decision and find some second hand MD-UW or just new SPS-1. It seems that I can't have everything in one machine (how obvious) and that MD will give me a bit more flexibility and novelty in sound creation than any Jomox range stuff, which I was alternatively considering. Thanks for comment!

Re: your drum machine

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:15 pm
by JSRockit
I did it the opposite way...bought the Monomachine first, then bought the MD...then the MDUW.