What is the best afforable alternative to an 808?

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th0mas
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Post by th0mas » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:57 pm

sacredcow wrote:^th0mas, read that, please?
You own an ES-1 or 808? Ever tried very hard or used any of this forum's excelletn advice in trying to make the es-1 sound like an 808? EQ'd much? Been willing to admit that it's possible? Removed your bias against electribes resulting from your ea-1 hate and tried to look at them in the positive for reasons given by most people?
hahaahaha

sorry when I post an opinion I usually make it mine and don't base it on "reasons given by most people".

I owned an ES-1 and an EA-1. And I tried to get a decent kick coming outta that ES-1, but any time I ended up with anything remotely fat, it would start to bleed over other samples and I'd end up with max 2 usable polyphony. Maybe my bass drum sample was too loud. Maybe I didn't run it through an outboard compressor and barely decent EQ, and most definitely I knew a lot less then than I do now. I do know one thing though, the thing sounded like balls if I wasn't going for lo-fi. I guess from what you people are saying on the forum, you can jump through enough hoops to get the thing to make a decent sound.

Now that I have a (closer approximation of a) proper set up I bet an EA-1 would actually fit in nicely if I didn't already have a microkorg for a more robust implementation of the korg VA sound (which I like, it's fun to play). Plus I was already schooled in that thread regarding envelope filters, so apparently I wasn't making the most of it when I owned it anyways.

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Post by JUGEL » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:53 pm

killedaway wrote:the OP asked for "the 808 sound/best alternative" and it needed to have a sequencer and "be cheap". he himself mentioned the Electribes, which clearly means that 1: he'd already considered the idea himself, so he's comfortable with it, and 2: he obviously is not going for a 100% perfect reincarnation of the 808.
Well I read people a little differently... why recommend something that he already thought of? What's the point in asking people then. Also, there are much better options. Also affordable doesn't just equal cheap and good enough. Might as well just get an old Boss Dr. _fill in the blank_.

With good technique .. I really think you can make an E-MU sound better than an 808. And if you really need a built in sequencer... a QM 309. It's better at the CR sound .. but it's pretty close.

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Post by parke02 » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:46 pm

I just found an original sample set of the Roland TR's sampled from a MPC60 that was released today. The demos sound nice enough and you can't argue with the price.

http://www.goldbaby.co.nz/thempc60page.html

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Post by killedaway » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:17 pm

JUGEL wrote: Well I read people a little differently... why recommend something that he already thought of? What's the point in asking people then.
i know he already mentioned them, but he didn't state which Electribe he thought was suitable, leaving room for us to offer specific models that might suit his needs along with why. maybe by "electribe" he meant the ER-1, in which case i'd tell him "no way". i didn't say other alternatives were no good -- if he's down with a 309 and Emu or Drumstation or whatever, then great!
Also, there are much better options. Also affordable doesn't just equal cheap and good enough. Might as well just get an old Boss Dr. _fill in the blank_.
in no way did i even imply that the main reason to get an ESX-1 was because it was cheap. it was one of several criteria posed by the OP. the suggestion i offered fit every single one of his requests (with sound being subjective, of course): 808 sound, included sequencer, and "cheap" (by comparison? absolutely). i also feel that a sampler (of any kind matching what the OP was looking for) was head and shoulders above the other options in terms of versatility and functionality.

anyway, i'm not trying to come off as argumentative, please don't take it that way. i'm just trying to clarify my previous posts.
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Post by killedaway » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:22 pm

c**p, now you guys have me looking at the 309! :(
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Post by JUGEL » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:25 pm

try and get one with the upgrades .. a b***h to find later.

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Post by haricots » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:36 pm

In Canada you can get the upgrades from www.eriksonaudio.com. Contact Judith Dugas at 514-457-2555 ext(277). I haven't spoken to them yet about costs.

Does anyone know how much this upgrade is and can you simply swap out the two chips yourself or is there soldering involved?

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Post by Soundwave » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:50 pm

haricots wrote:In Canada you can get the upgrades from www.eriksonaudio.com. Contact Judith Dugas at 514-457-2555 ext(277). I haven't spoken to them yet about costs.

Does anyone know how much this upgrade is and can you simply swap out the two chips yourself or is there soldering involved?
Piece of piss mate, all you need is a screwdriver and clean hands. :wink:

I'll try and post a little 808 action Quasimidi style later if I get time, watch this space.

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Post by prophei » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:55 pm

killedaway wrote:
JSRockit wrote:
So, it's really that easy? Each sampler...even at 44.1khz / 16 bit...makes samples sound different to my ears...and my ears aren't that good, but I can still tell. Ad/DA converters for each machine change the way samples sound. If you've ever used a real TR-606, you would know that the sequencer makes the machine sound different than a sampler could ever. I would imagine it's the same with the 808. There is just something about the real thing in these boxes that cannot be emulated with sampling.
okay, don't misunderstand me: clearly, a sampler is not going to accurately emulate the subtle nuances such as pitch and synthesis drift, etc., and the ADDA process is going to alter them somewhat, but saying a sampler doesn't sound (much) like what's been input is like saying a CD doesn't sound like what's been recorded to it. most folks (forget about us super-picky musicians) on the listening end of the process are going to be hard-pressed to hear the difference between a sampled 808 kick & snare vs. the real deal.

the OP asked for "the 808 sound/best alternative" and it needed to have a sequencer and "be cheap". he himself mentioned the Electribes, which clearly means that 1: he'd already considered the idea himself, so he's comfortable with it, and 2: he obviously is not going for a 100% perfect reincarnation of the 808.

lastly, if you're going to diss the idea of sampling due to slight variations/warmth/whatever that exists within the 808, you can't come along and recommend the Drumstation or the JoMox, as they'd be subject to the same not-exactly-an-808 argument. what i offered was an extremely cost-efficient alternative that offers a lot of additional functionality, and will satisfy most less-than-anal 808 requirements. and i stand by it.
Sure, you can come close...and at times come up with something better...but if you want the real sound...you need the real deal.
precisely. but that's not an option here.
yes, and which knobs was he going to use on the electribe to mimic the live performance parameters on the 808 and drumstation? thank you.
andromeda > polyevolver keyboard > ms-20 > oberheim two voice > arp 2600 > minimoog > custom modular system > polivoks > roland SVC-350 > jomox mbase01 > sh2 > acidlab > tr-808 > drumtrax > korg dvp-1 > protools hd3 > mac dual 2.0 G5

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Post by prophei » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:56 pm

wvcttr wrote:Instead of getting into some dumb argument over sampllers versus analogue drum machines, can someone who actually owns both a tr-808 and at esx-1 compare the two and let us know their findings.

After owning two tr808s at various times over the last 12+ years, I've found that nothing approaches the tr808. It has a distinctive sound. I'm pretty sure you can't convince me that a sampler (any sampler) can faithfully reproduce the quirky, fun, imperfect world that the tr808 offers.

I'm assuming that those who claim that the tr808 can be faithfully reproduced through other means have not actually used a tr808. It has its own character... definitely.

Before being labelled as some tr808 fanatic, I sold my last midi-fitted tr808 for a tr606, a maq 16/3, some cash, and some beer. Because... well... I like beer.
i own an 808 and have spent time with the electribe. they just don't sound the same to my ears. very different character.
andromeda > polyevolver keyboard > ms-20 > oberheim two voice > arp 2600 > minimoog > custom modular system > polivoks > roland SVC-350 > jomox mbase01 > sh2 > acidlab > tr-808 > drumtrax > korg dvp-1 > protools hd3 > mac dual 2.0 G5

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Post by m03 » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:23 pm

JUGEL wrote:try and get one with the upgrades .. a b***h to find later.
The guy in Germany still has plenty of the upgrades left. It only took a week to get mine, shipped from Germany.

http://www.quasimidisupport.de/deutsch/support.htm

The English half of the site isn't complete, but the German half should tell you enough. The OS ROM updates are available too, just not listed on the site. Reasonable prices too.
Last edited by m03 on Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by m03 » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:24 pm

prophei wrote: yes, and which knobs was he going to use on the electribe to mimic the live performance parameters on the 808 and drumstation? thank you.
There's nothing preventing you from using the knobs on the Drumstation itself.

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Post by killedaway » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:06 pm

prophei wrote: yes, and which knobs was he going to use on the electribe to mimic the live performance parameters on the 808 and drumstation?
none! he didn't say that he wanted to manipulate the "live performance parameters". he can still tweak those samples plenty. further, there's so much beyond drums that an ESX-1 could do, that it looked like a good choice to me. sure, it won't be identical to an 808, but neither will a drumstation. your post makes it sound like you're trying to "catch me" making a mistake, by suggesting a sampler for 808 sounds. but the drumstation is just as flawed of a choice, if we're going to rigidly adhere to the OP's expectations: you left out the fact that the drumstation doesn't include a sequencer, which was specifically required ("it would have to have some sort sequencer..."). so i could rightly ask "...and what sequencer was he going to use on the drumstation?"

anyway, i still say he could buy a good sampler that would fulfill basic 808 sound requirements for less than a drumstation and a sequencer. so i've got that going for me. :lol:
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Post by Bitexion » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:03 am

Many of the newer Roland ROMplers have all the sounds from their famous drum machines. My Roland RS-5 has both 808, 909 and 606 drumsets, nicely laid out across the keybed, so it's easy to set up a MIDI drumtrack and play it through the synth. Voila, oldschool drums.

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Post by JSRockit » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:15 pm

Bitexion wrote:Many of the newer Roland ROMplers have all the sounds from their famous drum machines. My Roland RS-5 has both 808, 909 and 606 drumsets, nicely laid out across the keybed, so it's easy to set up a MIDI drumtrack and play it through the synth. Voila, oldschool drums.
But do they sound right? I mean, the Boss DR drum machines and Roland Grooveboxes have the sounds too...but they just don't sound the same.
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