The death of the keyboard ?!?!?

Alphacode · Post by **Alphacode** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:14 am

NOTHING will Replace real Keyboards . Do you really think Plug'ins will be the only form of synthesis in some time . NO !
No Serious STUDIO Use Only Plug'ins . Plug'ins are more for fun, for amateurs,
or to add some sounds that would be complicated to do on one synth .... but nothing is ''not possible''
Hook up on the same midi channel for ex a Jd800 - D50 - Jx8p -Mks70 - dx7 - dw8000... or other combinations ,find for every synth it's place in the sound spectrum and try to repreduce it by a plug'in ....... well Good Luck !

CS_TBL · Post by **CS_TBL** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:45 am

Alphacode wrote:NOTHING will Replace real Keyboards . Do you really think Plug'ins will be the only form of synthesis in some time . NO !

YES! Eventually old keyboards will break down, by the time that happens, the majority has moved towards plug-ins making the traditional market small leading to high prices. What we'll see then are either: masterkeyboards controlling traditional/domestic computers or masterkeyboards controlling modules with embedded computers tho I don't expect these to survive against cheap/powerful laptops -or who knows: cellphones! Remember I'm talking about the year 2020 orso-.

No Serious STUDIO Use Only Plug'ins . Plug'ins are more for fun, for amateurs,

Divide traditional studios and new studios. There's no such thing as a "serious studio" in the debate between hardware vs software 'n such. My practical studio is based on a PC (my sig equip. isn't much used here), and I'm doing stuff for TV and film (that includes large symphonies).. according to your ideas the usage of PC's-only makes me 'not serious'?

Plug-ins for fun? I see a very practical/musical value in stuff like Halion, FM8. The only moment where Halion is funny is when I load staccato samples of a contrabassoon.

For amateurs? Nope: for everyone.

(on a more serious note: in a discussion the usage of words like 'not serious', 'amateurs', 'fun-only' is a sign of weakness)

Hook up on the same midi channel for ex a Jd800 - D50 - Jx8p -Mks70 - dx7 - dw8000... or other combinations ,find for every synth it's place in the sound spectrum and try to repreduce it by a plug'in ....... well Good Luck !

Given I have recreations of those synths as plug-ins, or a generic synths-plug-in able to ape those models... no problem. Not going to try tho as I'm not the type to stack *that* many synths just for sake of giving an example, not even for the sake of music in general.

Now the other way around: a 80GB orchestra mock-up using Halion3, show me the hardware equivalent to ape that! (within a reasonable budget of course, 320x AKAI S6000/256MB is no option here (not to mention a crime to organize/wire/control!))

Altitude · Post by **Altitude** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:56 am

I am most interested in the sounds of the synth, I dont need to look at it to be inspired. If I can get the same sounds out of a rack unit for less money, thats the way I go. I like the action of my controller and like to use it for all my synths (even the ones with keys) and racks take up much less space.

Denms20 · Post by **Denms20** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:44 pm

portland wrote: True indeed. Also, I think that unless you are actually a piano player, why use a keyboard? I myself am a saxophone player, so I'll be using a Yamaha WX controller

How are you going to handle chords?

clubbedtodeath · Post by **clubbedtodeath** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:57 pm

Denms20 wrote:How are you going to handle chords?

Soundwave · Post by **Soundwave** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:15 pm

Apart from real analogue or something with an extravagant UI the dedicated digital sound module has had its day in the wake of softsynths and the more powerful and stable computer hardware get then the more the market will diminish. E-mu have stopped producing sound modules some years ago for exactly the same reason. I've seen many a complete rack setup for sale on ebay due to 'going software'. Why by a tired old ROMpler with a couple of hundred MB of compromised key mapped samples to edit with a small LCD screen when you can have a few gig of professionally produced 24bit samples on a 19” screen at the click of a mouse for the same price?

If your a keyboard player then I think its all down to how many keys you want around you and the space you have to do it but I other than triggering the odd sound or arpeggiator try and avoid the keyboard as much as possible these days but thats just me.

JSRockit · Post by **JSRockit** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:55 pm

Denms20 wrote:
portland wrote: True indeed. Also, I think that unless you are actually a piano player, why use a keyboard? I myself am a saxophone player, so I'll be using a Yamaha WX controller
How are you going to handle chords?

Who needs chords?

viscerallove · Post by **viscerallove** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:42 pm

i have had 2 rackmount synths since i started playing, and ive gotten rid of both of them. ive had 6 keyboard synths and havent sold a single one. i have many software synths and probably have not used any of them more than a handful of times. programming just does not feel right if there isnt a keyboard attached, and even a midi controller doesnt make it feel the same way. keyboard synths just have a sort of intimacy to them when i am programming them that the other s**t just cant do. thats my extremely-tired-but-unable-to-sleep $.02

Post by **Stab Frenzy** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:07 pm

yellowfever wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote:Just as an example, the main circuit-board/knobs for the nord lead and lead rack are the same, so it doesn't really cost them much extra to produce both options. Same goes for the MS2000, most viruses, etc.
This is exactly the right example. The MS2000 and MS2000R are identical except for the keys. Why produce both? If you have a midi controller keyboard you are happy with, not just buy the racks? And they do tend to be cheaper. This is what I would do.

But there are other people in the world who have different needs to you.

For example the kid who plays bass but wants to make synth sounds through his was amp, not set up a whole studio. Or the person who wants to play their keys live and only wants to lug one bit of gear. Or the person who just wants to buy one thing so they can make space noises on the couch through headphones while their housmates are watching tv. I could go on, but you get what I mean. Korg are basically putting the same circuits in two different boxes and being able to satisfy the needs of two lots of people at once.

Chances are if there was no keyboard version the rack would have had to cost more to get back r&d costs, seeing as they would have sold fewer units overall. You wouldn't want that would you?

Alphacode · Post by **Alphacode** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:22 pm

CS_TBL wrote:
Alphacode wrote:NOTHING will Replace real Keyboards . Do you really think Plug'ins will be the only form of synthesis in some time . NO !
YES! Eventually old keyboards will break down, by the time that happens, the majority has moved towards plug-ins making the traditional market small leading to high prices. What we'll see then are either: masterkeyboards controlling traditional/domestic computers or masterkeyboards controlling modules with embedded computers tho I don't expect these to survive against cheap/powerful laptops -or who knows: cellphones! Remember I'm talking about the year 2020 orso-.

No Serious STUDIO Use Only Plug'ins . Plug'ins are more for fun, for amateurs,
Divide traditional studios and new studios. There's no such thing as a "serious studio" in the debate between hardware vs software 'n such. My practical studio is based on a PC (my sig equip. isn't much used here), and I'm doing stuff for TV and film (that includes large symphonies).. according to your ideas the usage of PC's-only makes me 'not serious'?

Plug-ins for fun? I see a very practical/musical value in stuff like Halion, FM8. The only moment where Halion is funny is when I load staccato samples of a contrabassoon.

For amateurs? Nope: for everyone.

(on a more serious note: in a discussion the usage of words like 'not serious', 'amateurs', 'fun-only' is a sign of weakness)

Hook up on the same midi channel for ex a Jd800 - D50 - Jx8p -Mks70 - dx7 - dw8000... or other combinations ,find for every synth it's place in the sound spectrum and try to repreduce it by a plug'in ....... well Good Luck !
Given I have recreations of those synths as plug-ins, or a generic synths-plug-in able to ape those models... no problem. Not going to try tho as I'm not the type to stack *that* many synths just for sake of giving an example, not even for the sake of music in general.

Now the other way around: a 80GB orchestra mock-up using Halion3, show me the hardware equivalent to ape that! (within a reasonable budget of course, 320x AKAI S6000/256MB is no option here (not to mention a crime to organize/wire/control!))

I think you will be seriously dissapointed by the future .... in the end of the 80's everyone thought that analogue is a dead and Digital si the new better technology,We are now in almost 2010 and almost every sigle synth manufacturer is going back to the idea of analogue keyboard with the help of digital ...

(on a more serious note: in a discussion the usage of words like 'not serious', 'amateurs', 'fun-only' is a sign of weakness)

hehe where did you got that ....

( On a more serious note , maybe you don't have the money to buy real synths and you don't know anything about .. MUSIC ,and that's why you are thinking that plug'ins are better , because maybe they are better and easier for you to put sounds together with...)

No Rick Wakeman ,Chick Corea or Keith emmerson etc... would go on stage with only a Masterkeyboard and a laptop...

Altitude · Post by **Altitude** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:49 pm

Alphacode wrote:
CS_TBL wrote:
Alphacode wrote:Blah..blah.. blah SNIP

I think you will be seriously dissapointed by the future .... in the end of the 80's everyone thought that analogue is a dead and Digital si the new better technology,We are now in almost 2010 and almost every sigle synth manufacturer is going back to the idea of analogue keyboard with the help of digital ...

*SNIP*

Um, beyond the boutiques, who is producing analogs? I dont see one analog anything in a Roland, Yamaha, or Korg catalog this year

Soundwave · Post by **Soundwave** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:58 pm

Alphacode wrote: [
No Rick Wakeman ,Chick Corea or Keith emmerson etc... would go on stage with only a Masterkeyboard and a laptop...

Maybe not but these famous users do!

http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/com ... rsers.html

I think you've totally missed the point with plugins dude, either that or you have a s**t soundcard on your PC.

CS_TBL · Post by **CS_TBL** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:15 pm

I think you will be seriously dissapointed by the future .... in the end of the 80's everyone thought that analogue is a dead and Digital si the new better technology,We are now in almost 2010 and almost every sigle synth manufacturer is going back to the idea of analogue keyboard with the help of digital ...

They're going with the flow rather, since there seems to be a market there. In the ROMpler years the downside of sampled sawtooths 'n such was the keygrouping and the aliasing. That's where these VA's come in: non-aliasing sawtooths (and thus blocks/pulses as well). Roland/Yamaha/Korg are still also doing ROMplers these days. So 'just going back' is a bit farfetched. They rather picked an extra segment of the market to cash into.

hehe where did you got that ....

It's common. It can be seen on forums about politics during elections "oooh, only those with an IQ<80 will vote on party xyz", it's also not uncommon to read such arguements from the so-called professionals who once invested tons in their studio, who're still paying for all that, while the current generation of competitors has the same production means, and usually even more, for a dime.

( On a more serious note , maybe you don't have the money to buy real synths and you don't know anything about .. MUSIC ,and that's why you are thinking that plug'ins are better , because maybe they are better and easier for you to put sounds together with...)

As you can see in my sig I *have* real synths, and no they aren't much in use lately. I even have a 2-meter AMEK 35:12:2 mixing-console, doing nothing. My recent PC just runs circles around the whole shebang, and that's a normal handpicked PC, not some expensive ProTools rig. And about the music-knowledge. I've studied musictechnology, graduated in 4 directions, I've recorded filmmusic with tens of real players in an orchestra hall for a short movie, I've done commercials, online-commercials, stageplays, screensavers for bignames, TV series, games.

No Rick Wakeman ,Chick Corea or Keith emmerson etc... would go on stage with only a Masterkeyboard and a laptop...

That's their choice, I don't base my workflow on them however. That's what ads in magazines are for. They feature some 'bigname' talking about an EQ or something assuming everyone likes to identify with that person and thus buy the EQ. Every brand has another bigname to pimp with of course, so in the end it's the same as washing soap commercials: they all claim to be better than the competitors.

yellowfever · Post by **yellowfever** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:54 pm

Altitude wrote:I am most interested in the sounds of the synth, I dont need to look at it to be inspired. If I can get the same sounds out of a rack unit for less money, thats the way I go. I like the action of my controller and like to use it for all my synths (even the ones with keys) and racks take up much less space.

My whole point exactly. Let's get off this argumentative topic of software, hardware; it wasn't the question I asked in the 1st place!! In fact, a rack synth and keyboard synth are both hardware! Example - Virus : would you have to buy the keyboard version, or will you be happy with rack version and midi keyboard controller? ditto Nord Lead.
Spot any keyboard synths in my gear list ?!

Analogue Crazy · Post by **Analogue Crazy** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:32 pm

For those of you who wonder what i use for recording....i don't record. I play for bands and help bands who need that 'special' analogue sound that takes a lot of time to create. Im NOT a recording artist. I play old analogue gear for bands who don't know how to operate old gear.

BTW my CS-40M demo should be on Jack Spider's 'synth demo' thread tomorrow.
If not, it will be on the following day.