Future-proof analog synths?

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Sexor
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Post by Sexor » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:22 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:
Sexor wrote:
Yoozer wrote: Aren't those just Junos that suffered from standing in the sun too long?
No, it's true - look closely at a number of juno-106 pics, you will see. There is a version with blue patch select buttons and another one with green (turquoise-ish) ones. I'm trying to establish if there is a reliability difference between the two...
The ones that look like they've got green buttons are just ones that used to have blue buttons but they've faded from UV light over time. There's no difference except the ones that look blue have been kept in the dark or in a case or something.
I must disagree once more. My judgement is not just made from pics but from the various other Juno 106's that I have come across.

There is no "inbetween" colour which would indicate fading... they are distinctly blue or green.

Notice also that the ones that have blue buttons have a blue strip above, and the ones with green buttons have the same blue strip - again, not what you would expect from fading.

I have read somewhere about the difference but I forgot where and can't find it again.
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Post by nadafarms » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:15 pm

OriginalJambo wrote:
nadafarms wrote:My moog little phatty is currently non working. So I think every analog synth is always going break eventually.
Really? :shock:

Did the OS lock up? And if so were you updating the firmware when it happened?
My Little Phatty now plays random notes, all over the place you play a major scale and get an atonal semitone scale with random jumps.

I tried calibration a million times and still whacked, I've been meaning to send it in but packing/shipping is going to be expensive and repairs too. So I've just been dragging my feet and will be happy that I just ordered a ms-20 that will probably be more reliable!
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Post by redchapterjubilee » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:47 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:My MEK cost me $900 new in box on ebay. The last Source on ebay sold for over $1400. Even though I got a good deal, you could still sell the Source for more than a new LP or MEK would cost in a store, or way more than you could get either second hand.
I've only seen a handful of Sources sell for more than $800, and those usually had the Encore upgrade and/or hard cases. As for the MEK...I bought JSRockIt's MEK nearly two years ago for I think $1000 postpaid and it might as well have been new, he takes such good care of his gear. Anyways, I had it all of 48 hours before I realized really quick that I did not like it. So that wasn't and still wouldn't be an option for me. An LP Stage II would be though, since it does everything the Source does plus some. Still, like i said earlier, about once or twice a year I think I should go modern but...man, I REALLY :love1: my Source. I had the chance to do a straight trade Source for LP Stage but for some reason it fell through. It's a quandary and I usually decide to do nothing about it. So I understand the original poster's fears.
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Post by otto » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:33 pm

redchapterjubilee wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote:My MEK cost me $900 new in box on ebay. The last Source on ebay sold for over $1400. Even though I got a good deal, you could still sell the Source for more than a new LP or MEK would cost in a store, or way more than you could get either second hand.
I've only seen a handful of Sources sell for more than $800, and those usually had the Encore upgrade and/or hard cases. As for the MEK...I bought JSRockIt's MEK nearly two years ago for I think $1000 postpaid and it might as well have been new, he takes such good care of his gear. Anyways, I had it all of 48 hours before I realized really quick that I did not like it. So that wasn't and still wouldn't be an option for me. An LP Stage II would be though, since it does everything the Source does plus some. Still, like i said earlier, about once or twice a year I think I should go modern but...man, I REALLY :love1: my Source. I had the chance to do a straight trade Source for LP Stage but for some reason it fell through. It's a quandary and I usually decide to do nothing about it. So I understand the original poster's fears.
You know if you like it that much your really should just hang on to it.
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Post by redchapterjubilee » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:02 pm

otto wrote:You know if you like it that much your really should just hang on to it.
Yep! I concur.

Meanwhile, I will say that I have started a savings fund to purchase my first real top-dollar analog poly. I will more than likely buy modern analog. The price of old-school knobby multi-oscillator per voice poly analogs has jumped through the roof. The Prophet 08 is usually cheaper than anything comparible. Of course, it will be argued for ages that the P8 cannot compete with the Prophet 5, Jupiters, Oberheims and the MemoryMoog. Plus DSI has awesome customer service.
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otto
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Post by otto » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:14 pm

redchapterjubilee wrote:
otto wrote:You know if you like it that much your really should just hang on to it.
Yep! I concur.

Meanwhile, I will say that I have started a savings fund to purchase my first real top-dollar analog poly. I will more than likely buy modern analog. The price of old-school knobby multi-oscillator per voice poly analogs has jumped through the roof. The Prophet 08 is usually cheaper than anything comparible. Of course, it will be argued for ages that the P8 cannot compete with the Prophet 5, Jupiters, Oberheims and the MemoryMoog. Plus DSI has awesome customer service.
If you didn't like the evolver....
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Post by OriginalJambo » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:31 am

nadafarms wrote:My Little Phatty now plays random notes, all over the place you play a major scale and get an atonal semitone scale with random jumps.

I tried calibration a million times and still whacked, I've been meaning to send it in but packing/shipping is going to be expensive and repairs too. So I've just been dragging my feet and will be happy that I just ordered a ms-20 that will probably be more reliable!
I had that problem when I updated the OS the first time. I just reverted back to the original OS then ran the automatic recalibration - everything worked out okay. Then I simply updated the OS the second time and it was fine for some reason. :dontknow:

Anyway, surely if your LP is buggered for no good reason and it's still under warranty you shouldn't have to pay a dime to have it serviced. Have you tried contacting Moog? I think it would be quite ridiculous to even expect you to pay anything!

Here's some food for though:

If Microsoft were prepared to repair my Xbox 360 for nothing under warranty I think it's safe to assume that Moog will at least take a look at my £900 (yes I know!) synth!

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Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:25 am

Sexor wrote:I must disagree once more. My judgement is not just made from pics but from the various other Juno 106's that I have come across.

There is no "inbetween" colour which would indicate fading... they are distinctly blue or green.

Notice also that the ones that have blue buttons have a blue strip above, and the ones with green buttons have the same blue strip - again, not what you would expect from fading.

I have read somewhere about the difference but I forgot where and can't find it again.
You're quite welcome to disagree, but it makes you look a bit silly. ;)

If Roland was making a Juno with green buttons, don't you think they'd make the other blue highlights green as well? All the blue strip proves is that the buttons used to be blue as well, before they faded. Plastic and paint fade at different rates, take a look at a 20+ year old car whose bumpers are a light grey colour but the black paint is still quite black.

I've seen 106s with differing amounts of fading so they were different shades of green. You may have read about there being two different models, but I'm guessing you read it on the internet, and everyone knows about stuff you read on the internet...

Try and find an original Roland promo photo of a 106 with green buttons and a blue stripe, people will believe you when you do.
OriginalJambo wrote:Here's some food for though:

If Microsoft were prepared to repair my Xbox 360 for nothing under warranty I think it's safe to assume that Moog will at least take a look at my £900 (yes I know!) synth!
Here's some food for thought:

Microsoft are one of the world's largest companies with an annual turnover of billions, Moog are a small company with a service department of one (or at least they used to only have one, maybe Amos has a helper now).

I'm sure Moog will help you out if you have a problem, but expecting them to behave in the same way Microsoft do is unrealistic.

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Post by SickMonkey » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:46 am

For what it's worth, I own 5 Juno-106's (all of them broken and bought cheap). The only one with green buttons also has nicotine-y yellow buttons instead of white. It also has the detachable power cord (or actually, it doesn't, because it's lost somewhere, but it should have it...) and the round metal toggle for portamento (instead of the rectangular plastic one).

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Post by redchapterjubilee » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:44 pm

otto wrote:If you didn't like the evolver....
The Evolver and Prophet08 are two different synths. Not completely light years apart (I know they share parts) but different. Plus I desire different things from a monosynth than I do a lead synth. I had a lot of difficulty programming very simple, Moog-esque sounds on the MEK, so instead of trying to make a synth something it's not I bought a Moog. I also bought the MEK without ever playing one. I have had the opportunity to play a P08 and tweak on it a bit. Of course, once I have $1500+ saved up I might go for something different. Never can tell with me!
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Post by JSRockit » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:56 pm

otto wrote:
redchapterjubilee wrote:
otto wrote:You know if you like it that much your really should just hang on to it.
Yep! I concur.

Meanwhile, I will say that I have started a savings fund to purchase my first real top-dollar analog poly. I will more than likely buy modern analog. The price of old-school knobby multi-oscillator per voice poly analogs has jumped through the roof. The Prophet 08 is usually cheaper than anything comparible. Of course, it will be argued for ages that the P8 cannot compete with the Prophet 5, Jupiters, Oberheims and the MemoryMoog. Plus DSI has awesome customer service.
If you didn't like the evolver....
He didn't like the evolver because he wanted a moog. I think alot of people who want a Moog buy a MEK thinking it'll do Moog and alot more. But if you really want that simple Moog style / souding analog, you really need to just buy the Moog. RCJ and myself learned the hard way. By the way RCJ, keep the source.
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Post by redchapterjubilee » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:59 pm

JSRockit wrote:He didn't like the evolver because he wanted a moog.
Pretty much. Some time earlier this year there was some thread that I argued with Automatic Gainsay about something (can't remember exactly) but what I do remember from that argument is that he got me to agree with him that we base what we think a synthesizer should sound like on other synths we've heard on our favorite records or live. For me that's pretty much the MiniMoog. To my ears The Source is pretty darn close in tone to the Model D. So I guess based on my preconceptions really only a Moog would sound right[/u] to me. Based on that argument I probably won't be happy with an analog poly until I buy an OB-XA. I don't see that happening though.

I've been really satisfied with The Source. About the only thing that I ever get frustrated about with The Source is that I wish I had a few more presets. Even 16 more would be enough. Someday I will have to do the Encore upgrade.

JSRockit wrote:I think alot of people who want a Moog buy a MEK thinking it'll do Moog and alot more. But if you really want that simple Moog style / souding analog, you really need to just buy the Moog. RCJ and myself learned the hard way. By the way RCJ, keep the source.


Agreed.
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Post by OriginalJambo » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:57 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:I'm sure Moog will help you out if you have a problem, but expecting them to behave in the same way Microsoft do is unrealistic.
And I'm sure they will too. However small company or not if you purchase an item with a warranty that's still valid (and you haven't done anything retarded to void it - e.g. open it up, set fire to it, taken a sledgehammer to it) then I believe it's fair to expect them to sort out it for nothing or next to nothing. That's what a warranty is all about after all!

In this case it's likely to just need a clean flash of the OS to sort the issue, so aside from shipping costs and a little time it's really nothing. I'm sure Moog will sort it out for free.

And you should know better than anyone else Stab, just take a look at DSI. Another small company that'll quite happily send you a free encoder - a company that clearly goes out their way. I've heard so many positive experiences with DSI customer support on this forum alone and the way I see it Moog should be trying their best to match that standard.

It's true that there's certainly a price to pay to keep your customers happy and your reputation flawless, but if DSI can pull it off isn't it fair to assume Moog should also be able to?

Hopefully they can and are, but I haven't had to deal with their customer support yet so I wouldn't know.

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Post by Stab Frenzy » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:21 pm

OriginalJambo wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote:I'm sure Moog will help you out if you have a problem, but expecting them to behave in the same way Microsoft do is unrealistic.
And I'm sure they will too. However small company or not if you purchase an item with a warranty that's still valid (and you haven't done anything retarded to void it - e.g. blah blah blah blah snip.
No s**t, what's your point? That companies fix things when they're still in warranty?

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Post by pricklyrobot » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:58 pm

23 wrote:I didn't read through all 4 pages, just the original post....
to begin with, can someone please define "Vintage"
Only arbitrarily, how about pre-1985? I reckon that's about what I had in mind when I originally posted, over a year ago by the way.
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