The "Amen" breakbeat and sampling documentary.

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Joxer96
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Post by Joxer96 » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:40 am

Excellent!

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Post by synapsecollapse » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:04 am

neat.

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Post by Automatic Gainsay » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:50 am

I'm a little confused how the documenter can stress the unfairness of lack of recognition or recompense for the drummer/band/etc. who recorded the break... and then somehow twist it around to be an advertisement for royalty-free sampling. Um.. huh?
Because Zero G basically broke the law by claiming copyright of the break, does not mean that it no longer is copyrightable.

Also, the premise that the bigwigs are concerned about what the kids on the margins are listening to is... a little strange. Any person making music for popular ads might be inclined to use what they heard as a funky drum beat to be found on any number of sample sets. It is not a marginal sound in itself, it's a cool drum beat from 1969.

He portrays copyright as something that was not enforced or cared about until the onset of sampling and use of uncleared samples in recordings for sale... but that simply isn't true. You've never been able to use someone else's recording in your own without permission. It has become more of a problem with the onset of sampling, but that is not to say that the problem never existed before sampling.

Overall, I feel his stance of victimization by copyright is ludicrous. I mean... a huge body of musicians, even electronic musicians, have somehow been able to write, record, and produce their own music despite the fact that the artistic audio output of the 20th century has been "locked away" by the legal system.

But OTHER than all of the copyright c**p, I found the history of the break VERY interesting. I can't believe how many times I've heard it and not put it all together. I've even used the sample myself, unknowingly!
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Post by neandrewthal » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:36 am

I can't believe how what I thought were so many psycho drum machine freakouts were really just the Amen played at 423124572568356 BPM.

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Post by Megatron » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:50 am

Last semester one of my professors sent this documentary to everyone in my major (performing arts technology). Pretty interesting stuff, but I found the creator a little dry and obnoxious, as I recall. It's really amazing that a genre of music can be based on 6 seconds of drums from 20 years earlier.

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Post by tunedLow » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:05 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:I'm a little confused how the documenter can stress the unfairness of lack of recognition or recompense for the drummer/band/etc. who recorded the break... and then somehow twist it around to be an advertisement for royalty-free sampling. Um.. huh?
Yeah but that's kind of how the situation is. Artists do certainly deserve copyright protection, but at the same time there is art to be made out of reworking the originals in some way. Since you can't have it both ways, and the law's the law, you have to get permission. But apparently permission can be very expensive - recordings get two copyrights, one for the score and one for the sound recording itself. Record companys usually get the sound recording rights and the artists gets the score. But there's no set rate for licensing samples so it can get really pricey. So then you kind of get the situation where the record company has more say than the artist. The Beastie Boys got sued over a sample to which they had the sound recording license, but not he score. The artist didn't want his work in their song, but the record company had their price. So I can see where it's kind of screwed up in that way.
Because Zero G basically broke the law by claiming copyright of the break, does not mean that it no longer is copyrightable.


I think he was just pointing out the irony that you could infringe upon Zero G's copyright.

Also, the premise that the bigwigs are concerned about what the kids on the margins are listening to is... a little strange. Any person making music for popular ads might be inclined to use what they heard as a funky drum beat to be found on any number of sample sets. It is not a marginal sound in itself, it's a cool drum beat from 1969.
Yeah I don't buy that either. He makes it sound as if every break you hear is the amen. But he does make the point that sample based music made it into the popular domain, which kind of acknowledges it.

He portrays copyright as something that was not enforced or cared about until the onset of sampling and use of uncleared samples in recordings for sale... but that simply isn't true. You've never been able to use someone else's recording in your own without permission. It has become more of a problem with the onset of sampling, but that is not to say that the problem never existed before sampling.
True, but sampling uses the sound recording copyright in an unexpected way. The reason sound recordings got copyright was to curb pirated recordings. The whole notion of sampling hadn't occurred to them. Also, before the copyright act of 76 any material you wanted copyrighted had to be registered, and after 76 it just had to be in a fixed medium.
Overall, I feel his stance of victimization by copyright is ludicrous. I mean... a huge body of musicians, even electronic musicians, have somehow been able to write, record, and produce their own music despite the fact that the artistic audio output of the 20th century has been "locked away" by the legal system.
Yeah I agree. I don't dismiss sample use as an art form in anyway, but it's just not coming to a screeching halt because of copyright protection. I mean, if sampling some major artists is too expensive, then sample some guy down the street.

But cases do arise when it's not so clear cut. There was this artist named Joy Garnett who painted a picture of a guy throwing a Molotov cocktail - and it's a really cool picture, but it's taken directly from some photographer's work who doesn't want her work recreated by this painter. So Garnett can't display the picture any more (but it's all over the internet anyway). While I side with the photographer, I have to say it kind of sucks that such a cool image can't be shown. But it's a give and take thing I guess.

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Post by Soundwave » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:32 am

I posted this ages ago but did anyone look? :roll:

http://www.vintagesynth.org/phpBB2/view ... hp?t=26935

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Post by Sweetnothing » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:47 am

Soundwave wrote:I posted this ages ago but did anyone look? :roll:

http://www.vintagesynth.org/phpBB2/view ... hp?t=26935
haha it's the same one...maybe nobody noticed?

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Post by Jack Spider » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:32 pm

As per Soundwave's posting. I had to jiggle the key in the lock then! :wink:
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