Access Virus TI vs. Waldorf Q+

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kogmachine
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Access Virus TI vs. Waldorf Q+

Post by kogmachine » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:57 pm

I'm looking at these two synths to figure out which would serve me better for Industrial Dance/New Wave/IDM/Future Pop/Techno type music. My choice would come down to the capability to make rich evolving sequences and pad plus a very flexible arp. I know that the Virus has a programmable arp and the Q+ has a step sequencer. So the Q+ would probably be better, but as to the quality of the sound I've no idea. Most of the Q+ samples I've heard are pretty cheesy and probably don't reflect its full sound generating possibilities. The Virus samples sound sweet but I don't hear too many arp sounds. So is anyone out there into these styles of music and has a Virus TI or Waldorf Q+ or BOTH that could help influence my decision. I already have an Ion but with only 8 voices and no flexible arp it's pretty hard to push the envelope with your sound. When I'm using all four timbres on the Ion (ex. a kick, a hat, a pad and an arp) my polyphony gets used up quick so it pretty much plays all four timbres in monophonic.
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Post by CTB » Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:36 pm

The Q also has a very flexible arp that is very playable. The step sequencer on the Q is infuriating to use; perhaps if you use it a lot it gets easier, but it is generally thought of as trying, at best. I use the arp much more than the seq on my Q.

With the TI being newer, it is indeed more advanced than the Q+ in some ways, and will be easier to find (unless you can snag a Phoenix Q+ before they are gone). I don't think you can go wrong with either one, though I find it somewhat easier to quickly get "crazy" sounds from the Virus with just a few knob tweaks on a locked arp. I admit I only have played TI's in stores, but they are pretty usable quickly. The Q+ might be a bit more work.

Sorry I can't shed more light on them for you than this. If you'd like to hear some other sounds from the Q series (and the TI, for that matter), check out Manuel Schleiss' soundsets. Manuel did a bank of factory sounds for the TI as well.

http://www.vengeance-sound.de/eng/indexFLASH.html
CTB

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Post by shaft9000 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:50 pm

they are 2 different classes of synthesizer:

The TI is a do-it-all VA with a darker subtractive sound, plus some digiwaves to brighten things up. This is for people that want greater PC integration in a hugely versatile, portable keyboard engine.

The Q is a performance-oriented digital synth with a very powerful, yet bright and metallic sound. It doesn't do the VA thing at all like others do. It is it's own unique beast.

it all depends on what you already have and what you feel is missing from your sound.

get 'em both, i say
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Post by CTB » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:09 pm

shaft9000 wrote:they are 2 different classes of synthesizer:

get 'em both, i say
That is my plan as well. :D
CTB

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Post by Pighood » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:17 am

Very generally:

TI = bread/butter techno sounds...version 2 takes it into dimensions unchartered by previous Virii. Strengths are its twin filters, triple LFO's, wavetables.

Q/Q+ = peyote sonified. No bread nor butter (for me anyway). Horiffic FM matrix make it essentially a hardwired digital modular. Strengths on Q are its oscillators & knobuliffic interface.

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Post by johans121 » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:40 am

Pighood wrote:Horiffic FM matrix make it essentially a hardwired digital modular.
I find this comment a little confusing. Are you saying that the matrix is so difficult to use you basically have a modular synth with permanent patches set? ie a worthless modular.

or are you saying that the matrix is so extensive that you basically have a modular synthesizer?
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Post by Pighood » Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:31 am

johans121 wrote:
Pighood wrote:Horiffic FM matrix make it essentially a hardwired digital modular.
I find this comment a little confusing. Are you saying that the matrix is so difficult to use you basically have a modular synth with permanent patches set? ie a worthless modular.

or are you saying that the matrix is so extensive that you basically have a modular synthesizer?
The latter. There are TWO matricies:

1. Direct FM from dedicated knobs for ALL THREE oscillators, allowing any oscillator to modulate any other, or SELF-modulate (like a traditional modular, PWM source modulation for all three oscillators, cutoff/panMod/FM source modulation for the filter section, pitchMod source modulation.

2. A 20 page modulation matrix (not 20 deep...20 side by side) in the menu: 8 fast modulation pairs, 8 standard modulation pairs, and 4 boolean generator pairs.

(ahem)










:shock:

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Post by kogmachine » Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:58 am

shaft9000 wrote:they are 2 different classes of synthesizer:

The TI is a do-it-all VA with a darker subtractive sound, plus some digiwaves to brighten things up. This is for people that want greater PC integration in a hugely versatile, portable keyboard engine.

The Q is a performance-oriented digital synth with a very powerful, yet bright and metallic sound. It doesn't do the VA thing at all like others do. It is it's own unique beast.

it all depends on what you already have and what you feel is missing from your sound.

get 'em both, i say
I want to, but that's a $6000 investment in my music that likely won't return half of that.
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Post by odradek » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:37 am

I exactly agree with shaft9000's comment - with one addition: The Q has one of the best user-interfaces I know. If you prefer to program your sounds with hardware, go with the Q. If you prefer higher PC integration, go with the Virus TI.

The sound of the Q inspires me much more than the Virus. Especially for the described styles of music with the Virus it's often like - hm, I've heard this before a hundred times...

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Post by CTB » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:32 pm

I've just fired up my Q after a long time, and after using the Waldorf XT extensively since, I've found that I'm not overly fond of the filters' sound on the Q (naturally the Q+ has the analog filters in addition to the types on mine, so I can't speak to them). It is very different from both the Virus and the XT, with a sharp brightness to it that you'll either like or not. It sounded a bit harsh to me after being away from the sound for a long time. Also, the reso goes from non-resonating (level 112) to resonating (level 113) with a very sharp change - once it resonates, it is very pronounced. That said, it does still excel at complex, evolving pads.

Also don't forget that there are only 16 analog filters on a Q+; thus, any patch using the analog filters can only have 16-note polyphony.

Kog, I assume you don't have access (no pun intended) to either of these machines to try out?
CTB

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Post by shaft9000 » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:28 pm

CTB wrote: I've found that I'm not overly fond of the filters' sound on the Q (naturally the Q+ has the analog filters in addition to the types on mine, so I can't speak to them). It is very different from both the Virus and the XT, with a sharp brightness to it that you'll either like or not. It sounded a bit harsh to me after being away from the sound for a long time.
This is the only reason i don't have a Q. Those filters are just to shrill for me, despite their awesome power.

Be sure you like that aspect before taking the plunge. It was the deal-breaker for me, but if you like it then Q could become your best friend :D

I also found the XT filter character to be a little bit nicer - a more transparent, fizzy quality without so much 'spike'...but it's also not as powerful-sounding as the Q.
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Post by Pighood » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:47 pm

Q's filters can get shrill indeed...but they're positively comatose when compared to the K5000's. :shock:

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Post by felis » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:32 am

kogmachine wrote: ....
I want to, but that's a $6000 investment in my music that likely won't return half of that.


You caan get into a Virus A and a micro-q for under 1,000. (might even be able to do a V-B and M-Q for that).

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Post by Neonlights84 » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:43 am

shaft9000 wrote:they are 2 different classes of synthesizer:

The TI is a do-it-all VA with a darker subtractive sound, plus some digiwaves to brighten things up. This is for people that want greater PC integration in a hugely versatile, portable keyboard engine.

The Q is a performance-oriented digital synth with a very powerful, yet bright and metallic sound. It doesn't do the VA thing at all like others do. It is it's own unique beast.

it all depends on what you already have and what you feel is missing from your sound.

get 'em both, i say
So you're saying the Q+ doesn't do convincing VA?
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Post by Pighood » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:51 am

With all that modulation power, who needs it to do VA?

Kinda like getting the BIGGEST FATTEST Victorinox knife for its toothpick.

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