VAs with Analog Filters.

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JSRockit
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VAs with Analog Filters.

Post by JSRockit » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:16 pm

Why don't the big synth manufactuers use analog filters in their VAs? To me, it seems like it would help to get them sounding more like the analogs they are emulating. I know some exist, but not by the big manufactuers.
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Post by calyx93 » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:47 pm

Cost vs. Demand - that's the main reason I can surmise.

AFAIK, the only synth to do this (and you probably remember the price tag) was the Q+. Fantastic synth, but it didn't exactly sell by the hundreds.
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Re: VAs with Analog Filters.

Post by Soundwave » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:07 pm

JSRockit wrote:Why don't the big synth manufactuers use analog filters in their VAs? To me, it seems like it would help to get them sounding more like the analogs they are emulating. I know some exist, but not by the big manufactuers.
There was a trend of DCO synths in the 80's (Synthex, Oscar, JP's ect) but you do have a very valid point there.
Putting a VA through an analogue filter can make a massive difference but judging how much the Andromeda and Q+ cost at RRP its perhaps not viable marketing ploy for the large sub £1000 market.

The Spectralis is a good example in theis respect but it is a specialist machine. Why Elecktron don't at that price is a mystery to me?

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Post by SWAN » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:14 pm

calyx93 wrote:Cost vs. Demand - that's the main reason I can surmise.

AFAIK, the only synth to do this (and you probably remember the price tag) was the Q+. Fantastic synth, but it didn't exactly sell by the hundreds.
The Microwave 1 has a lovely analogue filter. Im selling mine (UK) if anyones interested.

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Post by JSRockit » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:49 pm

I know some exist and are generally expensive...but if filter modules can be sold for less than $300 and MFB's synth lite II has an analog filter and sells for less than $300...then someone can surely make a VA (with keyboard) with an analogue filter for about $600-700.
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Post by Villi » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:18 pm

The MFB and the filter modules are monophonic. Most (all?) VAs are polyphonic so they'd need more filters. The Q+ has 16 of them.

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Post by gs » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:08 pm

If you want polysynth with analog filter, best bet is to scoop up some cheap 80s hybrid synths than to hope for a new VA with VCF. Look for the ones with the most flexible oscillator sections, such as the sampling synths of '85-'87 (rather than fixed waveforms like DW or E/SQ series). There's a lot you can do on those synths tailoring digital waveforms to affect the sound character, before it even hits the filter. Very flexible. The rest of the synth is analog as it should be (or as you want it to be), usually 8 filters for 8-note poly. You'd pay a lot for that to be built nowadays.
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Post by ReaPeR » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:44 pm

calyx93 wrote:Cost vs. Demand - that's the main reason I can surmise.

AFAIK, the only synth to do this (and you probably remember the price tag) was the Q+. Fantastic synth, but it didn't exactly sell by the hundreds.
damn when i'll have a job, that will be the first thing i will buy... i'm totally identified with the Q

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Post by JSRockit » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:04 pm

Villi wrote:The MFB and the filter modules are monophonic. Most (all?) VAs are polyphonic so they'd need more filters. The Q+ has 16 of them.
Ah, good point... I'm a mono synth man and rarely if never use polyphony... I tend to just use a bunch of mono lines in my music....no chords. Sometimes I forget that my way of working is not the norm. I'd be into a VA mono synth with a real filter, but I guess the masses wouldn't be.
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Post by calyx93 » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:11 pm

Then a filter bank or module might be your solution as they're monophonic by nature - running your existing gear through should achieve what you're desiring - maybe with even more flexibility to boot.
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Post by shaft9000 » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:12 pm

get a nice filter to use on all your digitals - Ebbe & Flutt, Sherman, jomox M-Resonator, frostwave resonator and several others are all great candidates

i put my Supernova through a Sherman filterbank and it can sound like a Korg PS one minute, a Jupiter 8 the next (use those analog envelopes too!)
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999.m1am1.RY30.svc350.memotron

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Post by DocT » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:16 pm

JSRockit wrote:I know some exist and are generally expensive...but if filter modules can be sold for less than $300 and MFB's synth lite II has an analog filter and sells for less than $300...then someone can surely make a VA (with keyboard) with an analogue filter for about $600-700.
Analogue filters are required per voice

But you aren't the only one not knowing this. That's why Waldorf failed with their AFB 16 filter box. Everybody asked "Who the f needs 16 filters ?"

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Post by JSRockit » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:17 pm

I'm not really looking for anything...I like my digital gear...well, except the filter on the EMX-1. I was just wondering because it seemed like a good solution to what I see as a problem in low-end VAs. However, the polyphony thing makes sense.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but an external filter will not react to my synths the same way an internal filter would... would it?

So, it really isn't a buying question...but more of a thought.
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Post by DocT » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:23 pm

JSRockit wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong... but an external filter will not react to my synths the same way an internal filter would... would it?
Depends... Precondition is that the external modul has its own envelope generator because midi doesn't send something like an envelope and VAs usually don't have CV outs ;)
Even if it has an envelope generator you will most likely have problems with fast snappy filter modulations because the tiny midi latency will lengthen the attack time.

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Post by gs » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:13 pm

JSRockit wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong... but an external filter will not react to my synths the same way an internal filter would... would it?
Generally, no.

If you are seeking the sound of certain vintage string synths, like the Solina for example, or a Polymoog, then a single external filter can be a good thing... to achieve that "paraphonic" effect.

You can still get some cool sounds by sending a whole polysynth's output into a monophonic filter, as long as you don't mind the envelopes, LFOs and whatever else not being in control of the filter, or lack of envelope articulation on each note. You can even learn a playing technique by manually adjusting the cutoff to articulate solo notes while playing with your other hand.
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