Roland D50 PCM waves &other ROM synths

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Post by Bitexion » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:38 am

Oh, I forgot to mention that sample was Gritarr 2, as used by mr. Jarre. I have his entire Revolutions soundbank :) The computer weekend sound is so weird and wonderful.

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Post by mao » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:34 am

After listening to the V-synth with the D50 card... I decided to keep my old Roland D50. V.synth+d50card sounds similar but not the same. It's not only a bit resolution problem It's ... I don't know... the D50 sounds bigger and warmer... that Resonance Sweep pad shows well what I mean.

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Post by Synthaholic » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:39 pm

Nothing beats the original in any case... real analog beats VA, real D-50 beats clones. I miss my D-50, and will probably get another one someday, or (more likely) a D-550 which is the rack version.

It's funny, I was at the music store last night playing with a Yamaha M06 and it had a Soundtrack patch on it that was clearly intended to be representative of the D-50's namesake. It sounded similar, but certainly not the same.

My favorite D-50 patch by far is Staccato Heaven. Especially when played at low velocity. It's just plain... sweet.
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D50 emulators

Post by Psy-nox » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:44 pm

Yes the Mo6, I have also seen names of patches of say roland synths pop up in other synths screens, especially the TB and OB letters.

The digital native dance sound that I wanted to get was just the first 2 and a half seconds..you know, the DoOoOOng the whiiirrrsh but not have the loop in there.

I will have to sample it into Kyma, all the individual waves and then envelope them. Put a avalon valve preamp on it to grit it up.

I guess that those synths that have PCM waveforms (not attack transients) such as the Motifs and the JV's and XV's are like a palette of paints. They can be used to make a full sound but the sounds cannot be mixed in the way that a painter mixes paints..which would be like the filters and the VCO's in the D50. The D50 did have VCO's?

I wish I could find a D50...I really do. :evil:
whiny twat

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Re: D50 emulators

Post by Synthaholic » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:56 pm

Psy-nox wrote:The digital native dance sound that I wanted to get was just the first 2 and a half seconds..you know, the DoOoOOng the whiiirrrsh but not have the loop in there.
If you have a real D-50 it is trivial to edit out/mute the loop part to get what you want. Maybe find a sample on the web somewhere.
They can be used to make a full sound but the sounds cannot be mixed in the way that a painter mixes paints..which would be like the filters and the VCO's in the D50. The D50 did have VCO's?
Some romplers can crossfade between samples, or you can emulate it with layers and envelopes. D-50 is digital, so it doesn't have actual VCOs but it has digital saw/pulse oscillators that function like VCOs in an analog synth. IIRC they called their filters and amp section "TVF" and "TVA", instead of VCF/VCA.
I wish I could find a D50...I really do. :evil:
They pop up on fleabay once in a while.
Two VCO: thanks to the push rods, one can choose several forms of waves at the same time!
(from a Babelfish translation of a Jupiter-6 site)

Yamaha: Motif XS6, TX802 Roland: D-550 Alesis: A6 Andromeda

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Post by Bitexion » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:59 pm

Don't like the plinkety-plonk part of DND?
Just leave the part with the plink out, the base sound is still the same, you just don't fade in the plonk with the volume envelope. Leave it out altogether. Remember the D50 sounds are usually 4 independant parts mixed together or fading in and out separately using clever envelopes.
The plinkety is just one of the PCM loops.
Have the Waaaaaaah after the woosh sustain indefinately instead of fading out and fade the plunk in. Case solved.

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Re: Roland D50 PCM waves &other ROM synths

Post by i_watch_stars » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:42 pm

Psy-nox wrote:

Hiya all. I have a question for those who are clued up on the Roland D50 LA synth.

I am just confused about something.

The D50 has those one shot and attack transient PCM waves...I believe that the PCM wave is the very start of the sound such as the chiff of a flute and then the LA synth part sustains the sound.....

would I be correct in saying that, a synth such as Yamaha Motif or a Roland XV3080 that also uses PCM sounds in ROM, but the sustained sound in a Motif or a XV3080 is a looped PCM wave as well as the attack transient?

did that make sense!

cheers all
Psy
Yes, it makes sense, and is a very good question. I have the XV-5080 as well as the D-50, so I can attempt to answer (I don't have the Motif however)...

Yes, you are right, the XV sample set does not have attack transients, just entire samples along with the attack transients (and some looped sustain waves with no transients). This is presumably because now that sample memory was cheap enough, Roland included entire samples instead of just the transients which was what they had in mind all along. Of course, you lose some flavor doing it this way, which is what makes a D-50 sound so special.

However, the same basic idea behind the D-50 is still there. There are still structures, with partials interacting together, including ring-mod, LFOs, TVF, TVA, etc. The main difference is (along with a completely different wave-set of course); on the D-50 there was a choice to modulate the pulse wave to create PWM. The XV engine does not have this feature. On the XV, to emulate this you must choose a PWM sustain wave. You can also of course, choose a multitude of saw and square waves (even more if you get the Vintage Synth expansion board). Wave 430 "PWM" is a choice here.

Also, you can just manually alter the TVA so it just sounds the transient, and cuts out all of the sustained wave, so you would have a D-50 like transient.

Still, the best thing to do is to just get a D-50 or D-550. It has all of the waves that most of which can only be found on the D-50, as well as the features you want. You won't regret it! You can't find it on eBay? Wow...I find them on there all the time. Maybe search for a D-550 too if you don't mind having a rack.

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Post by Mr. Black » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:06 pm

Accually I think the V synth Xt "which contains the d50 on board," sounds incredibly authentic,there is a way to change the D/A converter's so it can be low bit like origanal D50 or you use V synth 24 bit D/A.

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Post by Bitexion » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:28 am

I found no less than two D-50's in a nearby synth store a couple years ago. I was constantly ogling and fondling one of them, so much that when I wanted to buy it, the store's owner said I could have it for free if I managed to hold it above my head for 5 minutes (straight arms)..guess what? I managed. (I'm a small guy, so it was a fair challenge).
I'm a steady customer in the store and bought several synths before, it's not something that just happened as I walked in from the street.

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Post by gojira » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:07 am

Got a D-550 and PG-1000 recently.

Great sounds, and the PG-1000 makes it easy to program.

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Post by Synthaholic » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:35 pm

Bitexion wrote:I found no less than two D-50's in a nearby synth store a couple years ago. I was constantly ogling and fondling one of them, so much that when I wanted to buy it, the store's owner said I could have it for free if I managed to hold it above my head for 5 minutes (straight arms)..guess what? I managed. (I'm a small guy, so it was a fair challenge).
Hmmm... I wonder if I could try that with the Motif XS at my local store? ;) The one near work has the 88-key version, I'd definitely be earning that one if I were to hold it over my head for 5 minutes (if I could even lift it). :lol:

Great way to score a D-50 though (though IIRC they aren't all that heavy for a vintage synth). I'd love to get another one.
Two VCO: thanks to the push rods, one can choose several forms of waves at the same time!
(from a Babelfish translation of a Jupiter-6 site)

Yamaha: Motif XS6, TX802 Roland: D-550 Alesis: A6 Andromeda

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