Yamaha CS-80

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kogmachine
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Yamaha CS-80

Post by kogmachine » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:11 am

I was playing around with Arturia CS-80V and those pads sound like the voices of angels. I was wondering, since it would be nearly impossible to find a real CS-80(and definitely unaffordable) does the CS-60 have nearly the same presets? Or near the capability to duplicate those CS-80 sounds? I fell in love with those pads and would like to try to obtain a polyphonic hardware CS. Anyone know of another newer synth that comes real close to the sound of the CS-80?
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Post by JJQ » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:26 am

Hi..

I could recomend the CS-50 or 60.

Ive used both the CS-80/60/50, one of my best friends has a beautiful & stable CS-80. And you can get most of the sounds and feeling of the 50/60.

Read the reviews and listen to the samples on bluesynths.com.

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Post by kogmachine » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:41 am

Believe me, I want one bad. Don't know if I'll ever find one and have the cash at the same time though. I don't yet own any vintage gear, but if I did I'd have a CS-60. 4 voices is a bit slim for my needs and I barely get by with 8.
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Post by yburn » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:50 am

it's 8 voice poly. I is only 1 osc per voice as oppose to two on the CS80. There is something about the CS poly synths. The sound is really beautiful, not that it can't create most types of sounds, but some of the pads will make you weep. Kent Spong in London is the man to see if you need it calibrated or serviced. RLMusic also sell CS synths that Kent has serviced. They come built into a case too so unless the lid has been left off they are usually dust free and in pretty good nic.
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Post by SubliminalEffect » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:08 am

kogmachine wrote:Believe me, I want one bad.
OK, i only discovered this forum a couple of weeks ago. since then, i've been browsing through a lot of posts by people speculating about how to get the sound of the CS-80.

from some of the posts, i found this youtube video clip of Vangelis demonstrating the CS-80:


to me, it's pretty cut and dry. if something can get those sounds that i know so well from countless record playbacks, i'd be sold.

when Arturia first previewed the CS-80V at NAMM, i tried it and told them point blank that i wasn't hearing my CS-80 (or anyone else's). it wan't even close.

fortunately, a random passerby heard me and stated his credentials as a former owner of three CS-80s over the years. he gave the CS-80V a failing grade after just a short trial. for him, the measure of accuracy is the opening of UK's Alaska...

hear it here:
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.a ... 1979&BAB=Z

or from a concert recording here:
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.a ... 1979&BAB=M

pretty consistent. pretty unmistakeable. you either have that sound or you don't.

one of the posts i read suggested that the latest release of CS80V is much closer to nailing the sound of the original presets.

it will be very interesting to see if Arturia have finally come up with the modeling technology to recreate every ounce of that 220 pound sound. have you ever looked at all the wiring inside a CS-80? it's truly insane and it seems like an awful lot to ask of any emutation.

if Arturia's implementation still comes up short, i'm seriously tempted to sample my own CS-80 and make a VST instrument from the samples. i wouldn't have any fancy True Analog WhatsIt hype to call it - hopefully just an accurate rendition of those sounds.

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Post by Bitexion » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:36 am

The "presets" on the CS-80V are nothing like the presets on the preset buttons on the real CS-80. On the V they are just various synth configurations (the sliders jump to a new patch). On the real CS80 they are hardwired patches you can't change, and the actual control panel w/ sliders is inoperable when you use the presets. You can change brilliance (filter cutoff), LFO's and such but can't change the waveforms and many other settings.

On the CS-80V the presets are just fancy patches mapped to the buttons.
Basically, when you use the hardwired presets, only the lowermost row of sliders are operable, the rest do nothing.

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Post by yburn » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:40 am

I got hold of a CS60 but it needs a power supply rebuild and general calibration. These things are big and very heavy. it took two of us to get it up the stairs in my house. I can't imagine how people manage to move CS80s.

I've heard a CS80 in a studio side by side with CS80V and the difference is immediately noticeable. Ideally you'd want to compare the CS80V against the instrument they modelled but either way the real one sounded more 3 dimensional. I expect it may have something to do with the real one having a more pronounced chorus effect between the oscs as the modelled one had probably been calibrated and modelled in a perfect environment hence the oscs would be more in tune with each other. You also get the circuit noise, the little farts and squeaks that you get with analog synths that give them an individual personality. The biggest problem with a modelled version is that the CS poly's are really players synths. The ribbon controller is well thought out and the leavers well marked and spaced out (theres a lot of space on the front panel). The levers are short throw but quite easy to use accurately. Until midi controllers get better keyboards, better build quality, much better interfaces(that display what each controller is actually doing so you don't have to memorise the flipping layout), and more varied controllers, I can't see anyone getting the same out of CS80V as a real CS50/60/80. On the other hand there's a huge price difference.
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Post by Bitexion » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:42 am

Well, you will always have the old keyboardists from the 70's that owned CS-80's and just want the actual sounds back without spending £5000, and don't worry so much about what keyboard they play it from. They just wanna browse their old sound sheets and set up the similar sounds they used on THAT album back in 82.

Gotta remember that the CS-80 can be used for SOOOOOOO much more than just those Vangelis-like brass sounds.

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Post by Analogue Crazy » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:48 am

I reccomend the CS-60. As well as sounding similar it has the wonderful ribbon.
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Post by Bitexion » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:04 pm

It is true that the latest version of CS80V sounds more like the original. They changed the waveform shapes to look exactly like the waveforms that come out of the CS-80. And they've added a panel where you can individually (de)tune 8 of the voices to mimic the old instability.

I'm happy using the ribbon on the Andromeda, it's as big as the CS-80 ribbon and can do much much more than just pitch control :) You can route any parameter to the ribbon, like filter cutoff, LFO speed, anything you could think of. That's not possible with the CS-80.

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Post by gs » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:42 pm

I am and always have been in love with the CS80 sound. Especially as used by Eddie Jobson and Vangelis and Jeff Porcaro from Toto. I agree this synth is more about the performance control than just the sound. Most of the great artists that used this synth got particular types of sound out of it due more to their performance chops and tweaking, and style of playing, rather than their music just being "stamped" by the sound of this synth.

In any case, I have used several ways to emulate the CS80 sound with some success. Performance UI notwithstanding, I've blended in some CS80-V with some 80s MIDI-controlled analogs/hybrids like the JX10 or DSS1. The hardware synth puts in some of the organic warmth missing from CS80-V (especially bottom end). With careful programming, I've certainly made some very convincing Vangelis strings/brass and "Alaska" sound using this combination of software/hardware. I use a Peavey PC1600 to grab some realtime control from CS80-V.

IMO Arturia did a good job with the ring modulator (which sounds like no other ringmod on any other synth), even if they fell short in other areas of the sound.
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Post by Bitexion » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:22 pm

Here is one of my best efforts with the Andromeda "doing the Vangelis".
The patch mimics the CS80 layout.
I use aftertouch alot as playing technique. Got a nice bottom end to it too.

http://home.online.no/~tom-rf/A6/A6_cs80.mp3

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Post by WDW » Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:53 pm

I have yet to find a perfect emulation of the CS80. Half of the sound is the architecture, and half is the interface. Lose either one, and the sound is lost.

I have had the pleasure of playing CS80s, and I own both a CS60 and CS80V. The CS60 is very similar--and the closest that I have heard--but still only a fraction of the CS80. The one-OSC architecture lacks the complexity/fullness of the CS80. But the OSC, filters and ring mod produce that lovely CS tone. Unfortunately, the different keybed and lack of poly-AT limit the sonic possibilities.

The CS80V has improved since its inception, but it is still not the CS80, although it certainly has some of the CS character. But, like the CS60, without a poly-AT keyboard, it is not quite a CS80. Nonetheless, the CS80V is a great instrument in and of itself. I absolutely love its sound and interface (as much as a GUI can be loved). And I use different keyboards to control it, which actually allows very different sounds simply because of differences in channel pressure sensitivity, speed of keys, etc.

As to the original question, I would recommend the CS60 as the closest that you will come to the CS80. The CS70 and 50 are the next closest. And the CS80V is third. The recommendations also happen to be in order of price (from highest to lowest). If you get the CS80V, then also be sure to get as good a controller as you can, because it makes a world of difference.

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Post by MrFrodo » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:16 pm

Someday, someone will make a new analog synth (a la the A6) that updates the CS80's features, but with this fabled polyphonic aftertouch that's got everyone so "button-happy".
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Post by WDW » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:20 pm

I sincerely hope so.

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