Yamaha CS-80

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slinkyjr
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Re: cs80

Post by slinkyjr » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:06 am

eisbich wrote:nothing sounds like a cs80 and it never will, theres too much components in there, i own a cs80 and never use .
is it broken?
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Post by marzzz » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:10 am

CS-80V + Kurzweil MIDIBoard + Kurzweil ExpressionMate + Peavey 1600cx gets you part of the way there, but I am still not satisfied with the CS-80V tone. I have gotten better "Alaska" patches with U-He's Zebra2. But it is still a lot easier to deal with than a real CS-80.....

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use it

Post by eisbich » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:20 am

i imported this from canada, sourced legs and factory manual, its a great feeling to own one not now but in time they will fetch crazy money,
i believe less than 200 are working now i believe kate bush still has one
natukuri

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Post by SubliminalEffect » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:01 am

kogmachine wrote:I always thought that Moogs came out before the Fairlights but apparently I have to do more research.

...but my question remains, why do we see fewer and fewer new "real" analog synths on the market?
the Moogs (modular, Mini) did come before the Fairlights.

he just meant that those other additive instruments came before the Moogs (though it seems we may be able to agree that they weren't really synthesizers, at least as we commonly think of them now).

you kind of asked this before. it basically comes down to cost, particularly that of labor to assemble.

if you lift up the hood of the CS-80, you can see all the looms of wiring connecting up all the manual controls to the voice boards. all that wiring requires a lot of labor soldering, testing and assembling. i would presume this is the primary reason why Yamaha or some electronics cloner would never even consider recreating the CS-80 again.

as one of the other members here has in their signature - a generation ahead in keyboard control, a generation behind in digital control. it could maybe be argued a couple of generations behind on that last point... the labor costs today would just be too prohibitive and building it with cheap labor is just going to lead to quality control issues and high defect rates.

designing new analogs even with lots of manual controls is viable today because of more powerful electronics - there is another thread that talks about the synth-in-a-chip. it is because of integrated circuits like that which does away with much of that wiring in the CS-80 and hence, much of the labor component of the final production cost.

with digital synthesizers, programmers code the equivalent of what goes on inside the synth-in-a-chip (or whatever type of synthesis) and this gets blown into EPROMs which are then connected to the manual controls. i'm grossly over-simplifying here but this is what makes it possible for the Microns/Ions to have a complex, rich sound but packaged into a comparatively tiny package at a fraction of the price of a CS-80 in today's dollars or yesteryear.

as much as i would like to have a modern CS-80 that i don't have to worry whether it will actually all fire up every time i flick that power switch, if anyone ever makes a CS-80-08, it just won't be the same thing. there just aren't enough of us that would be willing to pay the shekels that it would take to bring back the original.

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Post by kogmachine » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:31 am

SubliminalEffect wrote:
kogmachine wrote:I always thought that Moogs came out before the Fairlights but apparently I have to do more research.

...but my question remains, why do we see fewer and fewer new "real" analog synths on the market?
the Moogs (modular, Mini) did come before the Fairlights.

he just meant that those other additive instruments came before the Moogs (though it seems we may be able to agree that they weren't really synthesizers, at least as we commonly think of them now).

you kind of asked this before. it basically comes down to cost, particularly that of labor to assemble.

if you lift up the hood of the CS-80, you can see all the looms of wiring connecting up all the manual controls to the voice boards. all that wiring requires a lot of labor soldering, testing and assembling. i would presume this is the primary reason why Yamaha or some electronics cloner would never even consider recreating the CS-80 again.

as one of the other members here has in their signature - a generation ahead in keyboard control, a generation behind in digital control. it could maybe be argued a couple of generations behind on that last point... the labor costs today would just be too prohibitive and building it with cheap labor is just going to lead to quality control issues and high defect rates.

designing new analogs even with lots of manual controls is viable today because of more powerful electronics - there is another thread that talks about the synth-in-a-chip. it is because of integrated circuits like that which does away with much of that wiring in the CS-80 and hence, much of the labor component of the final production cost.

with digital synthesizers, programmers code the equivalent of what goes on inside the synth-in-a-chip (or whatever type of synthesis) and this gets blown into EPROMs which are then connected to the manual controls. i'm grossly over-simplifying here but this is what makes it possible for the Microns/Ions to have a complex, rich sound but packaged into a comparatively tiny package at a fraction of the price of a CS-80 in today's dollars or yesteryear.

as much as i would like to have a modern CS-80 that i don't have to worry whether it will actually all fire up every time i flick that power switch, if anyone ever makes a CS-80-08, it just won't be the same thing. there just aren't enough of us that would be willing to pay the shekels that it would take to bring back the original.
Fair enough. :cry:
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Post by Bitexion » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:31 pm

The line in his signature is taken from the 1979 review of the then brand new CS80 by Dan Wyman I believe. It is a funny thing to see him compare the CS80 to the other new big thing, the Prophet-5, with all its memory, digitally controlled keyboard scanning, polymod section and say the CS80 comes out short on most points. It really resembles an old Yamaha organ more than a synthesizer when you stop and look at it.

I'm not sure I'd have realized it was a synth if I just walked up to it some day without knowing what it was.

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Post by Bob-omb » Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:33 pm

Bitexion wrote:It really resembles an old Yamaha organ more than a synthesizer when you stop and look at it.
Yamaha seemed to look at their GX-1 as an advanced electone organ. If I remember right I think that I've read (in a magazine a long time ago) that the CS80 was suppose to be a "combo" version of the GX-1. A portable electone organ.

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Post by gs » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:33 pm

Micke wrote:Besides the Fairlight (1979), Crumar GDS (1979-80) and DK Synergy (1982) there were the NED Synclavier I & II (1977 and 1979/80 respectively) and Kurzweil K150 (1986).
These were the early mass produced additives, but there were a couple of oddities here and there, some of which never got past the prototype stage: Micor Coupland (1978), Con Brio ADS (1979) and Hazelcom McLeyvier (1980) all had some form of additive synthesis. The Con Brio was used on the first Star Trek movie soundtrack.
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Post by Micke » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:09 pm

Yeah, the Con Brio ADS 100 was indeed used for some of the sound FX's on "Star Trek: the motion picture".

Image
The Con Brio ADS 100 (1979)

However, most of the sound effects for that film were created by Alan Howarth using a Prophet 5 rev 1 (or rev 2) and an Arp Avatar.

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"The (Yamaha) CS-80 is a step ahead in keyboard control, and a generation behind in digital control" -- Dan Wyman, Jan 1979

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Post by Automatic Gainsay » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:45 pm

Bob-omb wrote:
Bitexion wrote:It really resembles an old Yamaha organ more than a synthesizer when you stop and look at it.
Yamaha seemed to look at their GX-1 as an advanced electone organ. If I remember right I think that I've read (in a magazine a long time ago) that the CS80 was suppose to be a "combo" version of the GX-1. A portable electone organ.
While I don't know for certain, I can't see how that would be true.
Combo organs, which had been out for at least a decade at the time of the release of the CS-50, were intended to be transistorized portable organs, and therefore featured organ functionality and nomenclature.
Yamaha had been making combo organs since the 60s, including the already extremely cool YC series. The YC series featured some synthesizer aspects, and the same sort of lever-sliders, but were very much designed to be combo organs.
The CS series are nothing like organs at all. In fact, as a combo organ, they would be pretty lame with such massively limited polyphony. On top of that, even the presets, while resembling organ tabs (actually the only part of the CS series that looks or acts anything like an organ of any sort), feature presets which, again, have little to do with standard organ presets, combo or otherwise.
From the CS-50/CS-60 manual: "The Yamaha CS-50 and CS-60 are unique polyphonic synthesizers which place the entire realm of musical expression at your fingertips." "These synthesizers are true musical instruments, not merley "special effects" tools. The sounds are infinitely variable, and, because the keyboard is touch sensitive, you have increased dynamic control over your music."
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Re: use it

Post by steveman » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:17 pm

eisbich wrote:i imported this from canada, sourced legs and factory manual, its a great feeling to own one not now but in time they will fetch crazy money,
i believe less than 200 are working now i believe kate bush still has one
Ah, so you're a collector waiting for it to appreciate? :x

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Post by Bitexion » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:13 pm

Actually most of the electone organs from the 70/80's have the same type of coloured slider as the CS-80. That was the first thing I thought when I got my B55 electone organ last year. "COOL! CS-80 sliders!!"

Too bad there's only 7 of them though :P

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Post by Bob-omb » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:33 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:From the CS-50/CS-60 manual: "The Yamaha CS-50 and CS-60 are unique polyphonic synthesizers which place the entire realm of musical expression at your fingertips." "These synthesizers are true musical instruments, not merley "special effects" tools. The sounds are infinitely variable, and, because the keyboard is touch sensitive, you have increased dynamic control over your music."
Ok, then I guess I didn't remember right then. Bob is getting old folks... :oops: :lol: I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. :)

Bitexion wrote:Actually most of the electone organs from the 70/80's have the same type of coloured slider as the CS-80. That was the first thing I thought when I got my B55 electone organ last year. "COOL! CS-80 sliders!!"
True. They also share components with the CS synths. In fact the EX-1, EX-2, E-70, E-75 are like preset versions of the GX-1 (with some CS components). Pretty cool!

Image

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Post by ostrovitch » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:18 pm

The CS60 uses the same boards as CS80 to produce sounds.
So you could expect the same kind of sounds from a 60.
But the CS80's Polyaftertouch, makes it being much more expressive
than the 60, and of course with the 2 parts layering, sound is more rich.
If you use the CS80V from Arturia, try to get a midi controler with
polyaftertouch. (I know, it's rare, me I use a GEM S2, it's perfect. Of course if you could find a Kurtzweil Midiboard, it's the best, but maybe
more rare than a real CS80).
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Post by urgetoplay » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:54 pm

Maybe as rare but significantly cheaper. :wink:
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