If the PO8 is a big market hit...

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If the PO8 is a big market hit...

Post by gallant steve » Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:57 am

Could we hope for the japanese makers to finally take up the challenge ? Before everyone groans, I know this has been discussed many, many times before, but this new announcement seems to have generated more immediate buzz than any new instrument I can remember for a while. Look at the number of page views on the "beware" thread here, for instance (50,000 ?) , or the number of google entries for "prophet 08" within only a week or so.

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Post by neandrewthal » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:19 pm

I don't think the big 3 are interested in a challenge nor in what some people drool over on a message board.
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Post by gallant steve » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:25 pm

What they are interested in, reliably, is *sales* , and if the surprising amount of interest were to translate into a real mainstream hit (obviously a big 'if') , it wouldn't be irrational for them to be.

(The entire internet is not a "single message board" . This site has had so many hits because so many sites from Sweden to Spain have linked to the prophet discussion.)

I know it's much more unlikely for anyone except Moog to put out a new polyphonic, but there's nothing wrong with dreaming a little now and then.

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Post by StepLogik » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:18 pm

exactly. I think sales is what the big 3 are after and despite all the hype, sales of the P08 will be minuscule compared to the sales of the latest workstation / ROMpler.

As I've said before, the big 3 have all of their R&D into DSP - not analogue electronics. They would have to completely shift gears in order to design, tool up, and manufacturer an analogue synth.

We can all dream of a new analogue Jupiter-10 or a CS-90 but its never going to happen.

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Post by MrFrodo » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:33 pm

The truth is, when the microKorg is still selling in such big numbers (even beyond the introduction of the Radias and R3), Korg's got enough to handle, these days. Especially if they're stil reeling from the innitial advent of the Oasys. They'll only consider re-entering the true analog realm if it'll look simple and efficient to them.

I can't predict where Roland and Yamaha will go.
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Post by Bitexion » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:39 pm

Yep, no matter how little we may like it, for every analog synth that sells, 20 casios get sold too.

I was in a synth store and started "mocking" a Casio keyboard, and was scolded by the owner (whom I know) because the Casios are his best selling keyboards.

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Post by jko » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:33 pm

<We can all dream of a new analogue Jupiter-10 or a CS-90 but its never going to happen.>

to be fair, though, a DCO synth like the PO8 is cheaper to make than a new CS monster. One thing that strikes me is that previous conversations about no new polysynths have revolved around a sort of 'catch 22' -; the cost of making multiple VCO synths for a smaller market means it's very diifficult to make the commercial sums add up, while the presumption was that the cheaper and more commercially viable DCO synths wouldn't be as in demand for their sound. I wonder though, if a new DCO poly like the PO8 can sound distinctive, be well-received and make money for DSI, whether other small manafacturers if not the big three might be tempted in.
Last edited by jko on Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by oceanbourne » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:16 pm

Exactly. When I lived in Savannah, Georgia, the keyboard dude at the local music story explained to me that they had a devil of a time selling the V-synth they got in and their Karmas all went on sale at really low prices too because they were not moving. Now, imagine a real analog synth in there . . .

He said on the other hand, what he sells day in and day out is Tritons and Motifs. The market in Savannah is mainly hip-hop, churches, and soul music . . . if the ROMpler can make one or two Moogish lead sounds, a decent Hammond set of organ sounds, a piano that's not too horrid and a bunch of drum sounds he can sell it.
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Post by Bitexion » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:00 pm

The Andromeda was only made because some of the engineers persuaded the Alesis bosses to keep funding them. The project was threatened by shutdowns multiple times. They just don't find it profitable to research and create a brand new analog polysynth anymore. They don't sell enough of them to make up for the production cost (research included)

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Post by MrFrodo » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:03 pm

I would think that synth would be at least a steady seller. I mean, it's been in circulation for over half-a-decade.
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Post by Bitexion » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:04 pm

Yeah but the bosses didn't know that when it was being developed and they had to toss money at the project.

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Post by MrFrodo » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:11 pm

Theymust still be, otherwise it would be disconinued.
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Post by Mr. Black » Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:27 pm

If a big 3 company made a real anolog synth it would cost a fortune,and if it didn't sell enough they would strip it down, turn it into a VA,stick baby keys on it and watch it walk out the door.

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Post by oceanbourne » Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:42 pm

I think another factor people are missing here is that different companies will naturally do different things. Look at, in cars, say BMW's Z4 vs. Ford's mainstream cars or the Honda Civic. Which sells more? But there is a market for all of 'em.

Dave Smith is a visionary engineer and designer: his company has found a market niche very appropriate for his background and desires and they are doing fine with it. Moog, Dave Smith, Waldorf, and Clavia to an extent make instruments that appeal to a certain demographic of musicians. Whereas, someone playing in a church or a rock covers band really wants realistic emulations of traditional instruments plus maybe some additional groovy sounds. But they are not gonna tweak those sounds much.

That said, I've played around with the sounds on my Triton Extreme and my Juno-G lots and it's really amazing how much you can tweak stuff and create new patches on each. I want a Poly Evolver but honestly, between Massive, Absynth, FM8, my Nord Lead 2X and the aforementioned boards I can create most any sound I need . . . Kontakt with a wealth of sampled instruments rounds things out for organ and orchestral stuff.

I don't see a real demand to ask Korg, Roland, or Yamaha to do what Dave Smith and Co. are doing already.
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Post by DGX305 » Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:26 pm

who cares, if the big 3 want to make their Taurus like synths, they are responding to a mass market and that's what they are good at. If DSI wants to make Z4 like synths, he's filling a niche and good for him.

The fact that sales numbers show that Tritons and Casios sell many folds Andromedas and V-Synths is a reality, we can't color it and judge it and say it's bad or good, it's simply what it is. It means that musicians in volume who cater to mass music lovers are satisfied with the sounds they get from the ROMplers and they see no need for the extra expense to fill a small niche of a slightly different timber to the average listener.

Even a mass market pop band like Duran Duran that uses the A6 isn't really big because they use such a synth, it's marketing, lyrics, image, style, and other factors. My point is if Nick replaced his A6 with a Motif, sales won't drop down and he knows that!
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