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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:01 pm
by JSRockit
i_watch_stars wrote:Totally pointless.

Just another piece of technology repackaging some older technology into a user friendly pablum for the masses...nothing being pushed forward here, just more GUI.
What is wrong with innovation in interface? I have no problem with someone trying to make the job funner / different.

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:28 pm
by Yoozer
Interface innovation drove the condensing of a modular to a Mini. It went wrong when they tried to cram all kinds of functionality under membrane buttons; I'll give you that - but the changing of the interface (even in ways you'd consider gimmicky) changes the way you work with the instrument.

You could for instance use this as a coarse grid to draw an envelope curve on or an LFO waveshape. It's just that right now it's equipped with a romplerish synth that doesn't do that stuff, so you indeed get something like a glorified piano roll; but it also may serve as a parallel x0x machine, or you could divide the thing in 3 parts and use the lowest row for trigger, one bigger part for note pitch, another for slide, and another for cutoff.

See? Right out of the blue I've thought up 3 new (probably not, even) uses that have nothing whatsoever to do with making it easier for the public - just easier for those experimenting with it. The idea is good, the fact that they're all artsy-fartsy about it like it's the second coming or something isn't.

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:31 am
by Zamise
More details on site now.

http://www.global.yamaha.com/tenori-on/ ... index.html

I looked at the manual briefly. Saddend to see voices don't seem to be very editable and midi implimentation seems to be fairly limited too. Doesn't mean anything new won't come of it, like yoozer says perhaps a new method for editing the sounds will come into order. I like the LFO idea, they could of have pulled that right out of the RS7000's 16 step LFO which I love, but it don't appear they did. I was hoping for at least a Rez & Cut control on it =( Well, I got to go read more on it now, maybe I'm missing some stuff that might get me excited again...

Zam

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:25 am
by presets
im into this. ill have to reserve full judgement until its actually out. but im glad to see that something new is being released thats not a va, analog modeling drum machine, standard groovebox, etc. is it overpriced? it really depends i mean some va's are in that range not to compare it but you can buy something for about the same money that is really nothing new and come out every year or try something new that could improve your work flow.

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:57 am
by Zarith
:P Should be fun!

What I like about it is that it's a stand alone machine, with speakers. Something that you can play everywhere. It can even run on batteries. It seems to have a very specific sound, and that's great!

I love the "Push" mode example on the website, it makes me want to get one!

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:36 pm
by cartesia
i think without a strong midi implementation (sequencing, etc) and a decent sound engine, it will struggle to be more than a toy... whether people buy it will depend on price IMO it will have to be as cheap as an electribe X or not much more than a kaoss pad

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:09 pm
by meatballfulton
If it was $500 I would buy one today just from what I've already seen and heard.

It's a great interface, everything is mapped on the grid. You get 8 step sequenced "layers" (tracks) then eight additional layers like bounce and random that have huge potential for real-time performance.

As a step sequencing controller it's fantastic. The visual feedback for everything you do blows away the x0x way of working.

Sure, it would be even cooler if it supported CCs, had more sample time, etc. but the package as is still is pretty incredible and suits the way I would like to work perfectly.

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:24 pm
by meatballfulton
Yoozer wrote: The idea is good, the fact that they're all artsy-fartsy about it like it's the second coming or something isn't.
Why do you suppose it's only being test marketed (according to Yamaha Euriope's web site, it's UK only for now)? Because it's such a radical change in the player interface. We're all synth geeks here and most of us can at least peck out melodies on a keyboard. This thing goes so far beyond that it's not funny. It allows anyone to create loop based music with a purely visual interface.

Time is horizontal, pitch is vertical. Push some buttons and it ping-pongs between those notes. Repeat a note and choose repeat length by vertical position. Control volume by running your fingers along a row of buttons. Select scales and modes so there are no "wrong notes". Etc,. etc., etc. It's incredibly intuitive without requiring the end user to know squat about music other than using their ears.

Anyone who loves x0x programming should be wetting their pants over this thing.

Oh, no filter tweaks...give me a break. I knew someone would think of that.

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:41 pm
by Joxer96
polardark wrote:Bit expensive for a toy though. Otherwise i'd buy it.

Looks like electroplankton for the nintendo DS.
Funny, I thought the same exact thing. Looks like a nice toy, but that's about it.

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:55 pm
by cartesia
It allows anyone to create loop based music with a purely visual interface.
anyone with an absurd amount of money.. lets face it the only people dropping that kinda cash on a piece of music equipment are going to be musos, not 'anybodys'.

also - for the price of $0 every apple user gets garageband, and for a very small fee windows users can grab fruity loops..much more viable for newcomers than dropping a huge sum on a square full of flashing lights.

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:12 pm
by meatballfulton
cartesia wrote:for the price of $0 every apple user gets garageband, and for a very small fee windows users can grab fruity loops..much more viable for newcomers than dropping a huge sum on a square full of flashing lights.
Funny how people are always railing against the lack of creativity from big companies like Yamaha. So they come out with something that is so out of the box it's not funny and everybody's trashing it.

You guys crack me up. Don't forget the hallowed TB-303 got huge WTF reactions on release and took years before it found it's niche.

As far as comparing this to a computer program, it's far different...not to you maybe but not someone who has never used a computer for music and thinks of an instrument as something like a piano or a guitar.

I have never seen a computer program as intuitive to use as tenori-on is. Just to do note entry on most programs you're thrown into a piano roll editor or you click on the image of a keyboard. That's intuitive to the average person who knows nothing about music?

I have yet to see any software where every screen has the same interface. Outside of the few menu items, all modes of the tenori-on are accessed through the lighted 16x16 grid. In software you have mousable knobs and sliders, pull downs, dialog boxes, etc. On the tenori-on you just push buttons or move your fingers across the grid and immediately hear what it does...very simple to learn.

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:39 pm
by JSRockit
meatballfulton wrote: Funny how people are always railing against the lack of creativity from big companies like Yamaha. So they come out with something that is so out of the box it's not funny and everybody's trashing it.

You guys crack me up. Don't forget the hallowed TB-303 got huge WTF reactions on release and took years before it found it's niche.
I think the complaints come down to the price tag vs. features ratio not the fact that it isn't bringing anything new to the table.

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:30 am
by Zamise
Image

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:21 am
by Yoozer
meatballfulton wrote: You guys crack me up. Don't forget the hallowed TB-303 got huge WTF reactions on release and took years before it found it's niche.
I'd be careful with this argument as it's usually time that teaches if you're right or not ;).

"They laughed at Galileo and Newton!"

"Yeah, they also laughed at Bozo the Clown".
Zamise wrote:Image
That's brilliant :D

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:32 am
by cartesia
I have never seen a computer program as intuitive to use as tenori-on is. Just to do note entry on most programs you're thrown into a piano roll editor or you click on the image of a keyboard. That's intuitive to the average person who knows nothing about music?
Someone puts a grid of buttons in front of you .. excuse me for my ignorance, but how is it obvious what the buttons do? computers have labels, hover-over tooltips, higher resolution, colour differences, etc.

YES clicking on a keyboard/piano roll is more intuitive than pressing an unlabelled button when there are 255 (or whatever) buttons that look exactly the same surrounding it.

how do i switch modes in computer? oh click the button with the writing on it that says what i want?

how do i switch modes in tenori on? press a generic unlabelled button, that probably changes its function depending on what 'layer' im on?

PS:

lmao at that picture :lol:

Nobody is arguing that the tenori on doesn't have an interesting/creative interface, just that the product is priced out of the market of anyone that would think 'that looks fun i might pick one up' - the price certainly isnt going to be getting all these 'average consumers' you're talking about! an electribe is cheaper, and more intuitive...