DIY synths and ethics

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
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Altitude
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Post by Altitude » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:51 am

xpander wrote:
otto wrote:
xpander wrote:still wondering what patented technology was infringed upon.
I don't know for sure, something about "IP" and not for commercial use infringement. Not sure what that adds up to but it is obvious the community isn't in the position to pursue legal action. Is something ok if you can get away with it?
patents are IP (intellectual property). specifically what was used that was "not for commercial use"? was it a patented design? i imagine if a patent was neither applied for nor awarded, it would be a losing battle for claiming a design as your intellectual property, especially if it was publicly released. all i can see are two things that do similar things, and i don't see anything that sticks out as illegal.
So by that definition linux kernal can be used and sold commercially also? Both have almost identical open source licenses.. Ever looked how much it costs to file a patent btw? What is wrong with this whole thing is that the person in question is taking a mbhp device and selling it for profit which is clearly forbidden under creative commons. It is no different if someone repackaged a linux distro and started selling it as their own

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Post by Zamise » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:14 pm

I'm pretty much OK with it. I'm more with elmo's thoughts, the guy seems to be jaywalking in a grey possibly in a red area legally and moraly. I won't be buying from him, but maybe he should be more carefull where and whom he is taking property from and selling it though, and maybe the original designer should make their designs less available to infringe upon. If it is that much of a commodity or finacial loss or income for them, they should take steps to protect themselfs. I tell you I won't be leaving my wallet on a park bench with a sign on it saying "don't steal me" and be surprised when I find out some bum is trying to sell it. What ever the consequences, perhaps they both asked for it, or maybe not, its not going to bother me much, and so I guess what I'm surprised most about is the surprise from everyone else, the "sid community". Are their orifices really that puckered up? Jesus.
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Post by pricklyrobot » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:03 pm

Here's another analogy, for those of us who are bit hazy on what Linux kernels are.

Someone comes up with a delicious chocolate cake recipe, posts it online and says anyone's free to use it to make there own cakes, just not for commercial purposes. Another fellow notices that some people want the cakes, but don't have ovens, are s**t at baking, whatever. So he starts making cakes based on the recipe and selling them on Ebay. Is this wrong?

Also, does building things one at a time and selling them on Ebay actually constitute a commercial enterprise? That is, does magnitude enter into the ethical equation at all?

I don't have answers to all of these questions, just find this to be an interesting discussion (minus the shoplifting tangent).
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Post by xpander » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:07 pm

Altitude wrote:What is wrong with this whole thing is that the person in question is taking a mbhp device and selling it for profit which is clearly forbidden under creative commons. It is no different if someone repackaged a linux distro and started selling it as their own
but isn't he just selling one, not many?

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Post by KLAXON » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:21 pm

xpander wrote:
Altitude wrote:What is wrong with this whole thing is that the person in question is taking a mbhp device and selling it for profit which is clearly forbidden under creative commons. It is no different if someone repackaged a linux distro and started selling it as their own
but isn't he just selling one, not many?
No. He has already sold several, hence the reason people are talking about his ethics.
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Post by Zamise » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:50 am

Its OK if hes stealing stuff from all sorts of other folks, but since he made two Sid thingies and tried to sell them its all of a sudden all wrong and unethical and stuff. He messed with the wrong HOA this time, they don't mess around, this time they mean war biiiieeeeoatch, ruuuun!
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Post by otto » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:03 am

Tyler2000 wrote: I'm anti-government control and anti-big-business .
I'm really not trying to be a prick but you make it difficult. Do you also draw anarchy signs on your backpack? Aren't you in college or something like that? Seems like your making an effort to succeed in a society that is big-government and capitalistic. How has your theft benefited your cause? It hasn’t. It benefits you personally, you steal because you want the item. You don’t steal because of extremely vague ideals of being anti-big-government/business. Those are just convenient excuses for you to justify a completely selfish pursuit. Look, I’m not innocent I did a lot of stupid and selfish things growing up but at least be man enough to admit that you steal personal gain, nothing more nothing less. Now maybe if you were stealing something that actually helped your vague cause or did real damage to an industry you’d have a case.

Sorry for the rant everyone.
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Post by otto » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:07 am

I asked mainly because I think it is a gray area myself. Another thing to think about is that this guy is benefiting from everyone else playing along with the guidelines of the midi box community. If, tomorrow, many people who’ve made these started selling them the price he could get would drop dramatically. Particularly when you consider that there are far more professional, high quality MBSID’s being made.
pricklyrobot wrote:Here's another analogy, for those of us who are bit hazy on what Linux kernels are.

Someone comes up with a delicious chocolate cake recipe, posts it online and says anyone's free to use it to make there own cakes, just not for commercial purposes. Another fellow notices that some people want the cakes, but don't have ovens, are s**t at baking, whatever. So he starts making cakes based on the recipe and selling them on Ebay. Is this wrong?

Also, does building things one at a time and selling them on Ebay actually constitute a commercial enterprise? That is, does magnitude enter into the ethical equation at all?

I don't have answers to all of these questions, just find this to be an interesting discussion (minus the shoplifting tangent).
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Post by Tyler2000 » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:34 am

otto wrote:
Tyler2000 wrote: I'm anti-government control and anti-big-business .
I'm really not trying to be a prick but you make it difficult. Do you also draw anarchy signs on your backpack? Aren't you in college or something like that? Seems like your making an effort to succeed in a society that is big-government and capitalistic. How has your theft benefited your cause? It hasn’t. It benefits you personally, you steal because you want the item. You don’t steal because of extremely vague ideals of being anti-big-government/business. Those are just convenient excuses for you to justify a completely selfish pursuit. Look, I’m not innocent I did a lot of stupid and selfish things growing up but at least be man enough to admit that you steal personal gain, nothing more nothing less. Now maybe if you were stealing something that actually helped your vague cause or did real damage to an industry you’d have a case.

Sorry for the rant everyone.
Again, this is OT, but real quick. I lean more towards anarchy, but not in a pure sense. People who can sum the political ideals up into something that can be easily defined with one word haven't thought hard enough about what they believe. I don't steal because I think it will hurt a corporation, I steal becuase I don't care if it does. Therefore I don't steal from, say, a small record store because that is a business I do support. I believe in small businesses and minimalist government.

In short, I'm not some stupid punx kid who thinks that anarchy means I litter (anybody get it?). I don't do stuff becuase I think it is cool. And I'm not trying to impress you. In fact, I wish you would drop it.
so what do I put down here now?

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Post by cartesia » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:33 am

guess it all depends whether the licence applies to the plans, or physical boxes made according to the plan. if its the first, theres nothing wrong with what he's doing.

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Post by tallowwaters » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:55 am

would it be okay if i stole from people whos mommy and daddy pay for their college education?
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Altitude
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Post by Altitude » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:31 pm

tallowwaters wrote:would it be okay if i stole from people whos mommy and daddy pay for their college education?
:D

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Tyler2000
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Post by Tyler2000 » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:49 pm

tallowwaters wrote:would it be okay if i stole from people whos mommy and daddy pay for their college education?
not if they stole it.
so what do I put down here now?

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Post by Jack Spider » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:36 pm

Back on-topic, please gentlemen! You can always start a thread in Off Topic to further discuss views that will probably change within 10 years or so. :wink:
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Post by tallowwaters » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:20 pm

Tyler2000 wrote:
tallowwaters wrote:would it be okay if i stole from people whos mommy and daddy pay for their college education?
not if they stole it.
well, touche, sir. :wink:
Jack Spider wrote:Back on-topic, please gentlemen! You can always start a thread in Off Topic to further discuss views that will probably change within 10 years or so. :wink:
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anyhow, post info online and asking people not to use it....well, sadly enough, people will exploit you.
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