I Love my Prophet 5, but need an alternative...

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bill H.
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Post by bill H. » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:21 pm

Having played both a rev3 P-5 and a T-8 together a number of years ago, I would certainly not characterize the P-5 as having a "bigger" sound. I would put it the other way around actually. If the T-8 is in layer mode, there's no contest. :eek:

Envelopes are another matter however.

But... for a suggestion that's practical, I will echo everyone else about checking out the Prophet '08 if what you want is:

The Prophet sound
Modern amenities (MIDI, velocity keyboard)
The greater reliability and roadwortiness of a new board
A reluctance to MIDI your P-5 for whatever reasons.

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Post by gallant steve » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:28 pm

I'm another one that's lusted after the t8 for years - prices are bloody terrifying , though.

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Post by nadafarms » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:42 pm

Dude the filters sound sooo much more refined and smooth on the T8.
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Post by JJQ » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:56 pm

Jam, close to the train station in Malmö has the prophet 08.
(www.jamshop.se)

Otherwise Id go for a Roland Jupiter-8, with midi. Good and difernet compliment to a Prophet-5.
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Post by calyx93 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:19 pm

clusterchord wrote:Prophet T8 is nothing but a P600 with 8-note polyphony and velocity/poly after touch w beautiful weighted keyboard. so it actually sounds not as big as P5, but its UI makes up for it. also it has operations divied among several cpus, instead of just one in P600, so its less cpu-underpowered (no knob value jumping, faster sftw envelopes etc).
It's apparent that you've not used the T8 at all :( .

The two CPUs (one being faster than the other just for speed in the EGs and other rapid functions) along with the more robust and quality circuitry results in a synth that has just as much punch and responsiveness as the 5, if not better. It's not even in the same league as the 600.

Think about it practically. Why would SCI use such an elaborately expensive keyboard mechanism - one meant to exploit the player's nuances - on the weird envelopes of the 600? I've used both and still have a 5 and 600 kicking around in the studio - and for what it was worth, the 600 sounds pretty good. However, there's no way anyone could have sold that flabby of a VCA/EG with the T8 keyboard and UI, for the price it went for and not be laughed at. :wink:

Another defender of the often discussed, but rarely actually used T8.
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Post by JUGEL » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:55 pm

It's strange how people get opinions on things they've never had... like the Oberheim OB-12.... you're just supposed to hate it...

I call this the "Kmart sucks" attitude.

we're only human.. we all do this in some way at some time.

Oh yeah .. do you have a Rev 2 ?

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Post by insky » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:20 am

I know you guys are all going to kill me for this, but when I was in highschool I saw a T8 for sale for $700. At the time I was not into synths, and I didn't even know how to play a keyboard. I remember looking at it and seeing the $700 price tag and thinking it was a complete rip off...It's all old and stuff, and there's no MIDI (I didn't notice the MIDI jacks). Even if I had been impressed by it there was no way I could have afforded it.


Imagine my horror years later when I read up on it.

(This was around 2002)
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Post by REwire » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:33 am

I have a Rev3 Prophet-5 that I had Midified. The best thing I ever did. Imagine having a vintage synth that takes sysex and there are editors to store and program patches!

I also checked out the P8 and did not at all like it. Competely different than a P5 and missing that deep warmth and grit when you need it, especially with FM.

The next closest thing I've heard to substitute for a Midi'd P5 is a Rev4 MKS-80 or maybe a Jupiter-6, though it's midi is not sysex capable.
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Post by calyx93 » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:14 am

REwire wrote: also checked out the P8 and did not at all like it. Competely different than a P5 and missing that deep warmth and grit when you need it, especially with FM.

The next closest thing I've heard to substitute for a Midi'd P5 is a Rev4 MKS-80 or maybe a Jupiter-6, though it's midi is not sysex capable.
This is the major reason I've not been that enthusiastic about the P8. Sure, it has oodles more features than its predecessors, but even with its extra mod routings, it still cannot do what the original poly-mod section can do - and it simply isn't the same in terms of HI-FI sound. The P-5 sh*ts all over it - and if you've used the P5, no matter what the revision, you'll hear it.

Mind you, I'm NOT discounting the P8 on its own merits as it seems a very capable analog polysynth, but it is NO P5 or T8 in terms of its sound. Make no mistake - I'm not just some nostalgic, vintage synth user that's simply against any new developments in modern analog synth development. h**l - I've a Moog LP TE, Doepfer System and a Technosaurus Selector system. I'm just rather put-off that it was stated that the P8 could do what exactly what its predecessors could do, and more. Well, that's simply not true - despite the extra features and "round-about" way of trying to achieve what the poly-mod features accomplished, using the new mod-matri -the same results aren't just possible to me.

I have used a T8 for six years, only to relinquish it to a colleague for an undisclosed sum - and currently use a P5, P600 and Pro-1 in my studio. Tell me that I'm wrong, and I'll take the time retry one and satisfy my urge to purge myself of my brittle, old beasties (believe me - I'd love to relieve myself of their impending burden). However, until then - I'll cherish them as much as I do my family members - they're just that special to me.

My apologies for ranting - I'm just a little under the influence of NyQuil tonight or maybe just plain passion :wink:
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Post by Bitexion » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:09 am

You know, when I was young and wet behind the synth-ears, I probably wouldn't have recognized a Prophet, CS-80 or Jupiter if someone threw them at me. I'd probably be thinking "geez, who wants these old looking organs" and buy a digital rompler.

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Post by REwire » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:21 am

Bitexion wrote:You know, when I was young and wet behind the synth-ears, I probably wouldn't have recognized a Prophet, CS-80 or Jupiter if someone threw them at me. I'd probably be thinking "geez, who wants these old looking organs" and buy a digital rompler.
You're on a synth forum arguing that all this s**t sounds the same? Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
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Post by masstronaut » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:43 pm

REwire wrote:
Bitexion wrote:You know, when I was young and wet behind the synth-ears, I probably wouldn't have recognized a Prophet, CS-80 or Jupiter if someone threw them at me. I'd probably be thinking "geez, who wants these old looking organs" and buy a digital rompler.
You're on a synth forum arguing that all this s**t sounds the same? Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
You're replying to someone's post and you didn't even read it properly?

;)

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Post by Bitexion » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:22 pm

No I was saying that I wouldn't SEE the difference or know anything about these legendary synths if I saw them. I just listened to the music, never cared how it was made back then. I was a huuuuuge Jean Michel Jarre fan even when I was a kid. I'd sit in the kitchen and dream away listening to Concerts in China on full blast. I also learned many of his hits on the organ.

I didn't know what a Moog or Jupiter was. I just played electric organs.

I only got into the whole vintage synth craze when I bought my Ion in 2003 and started reading up on all the synths that the Ion's filters are modelled upon. And it was a neverending spiral and now I'm stocked with 8 synths, both analog and digital hehe. I'm still blaming my friend that got me to buy the Ion, when I think that I spent more than $10,000 on synths over the last 5 years hehe.

Rewire, you should know me better than to think I was a forum troll by now :wink:

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Post by REwire » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:53 am

Bitexion wrote:REwire, you should know me better than to think I was a forum troll by now :wink:
Yah, sorry, I misread that, but it wouldn't necessarily be a troll but a seasoned vet to point out that the average listener, which is far less knowledgable on synths that a newbie, would not tell an Ion from a Memorymoog or care.

My story: In 1983 when I was a teen, a friend of mine got a brand new Prophet-5 and I lusted after it. A year later I got a synth for my birthday but my dad said a Prophet was out of his price range so I settled on a Juno-6. I used the h**l out of that thing and loved it, but always knew the Prophet had a magic my Juno lacked. Now I have both (a J-60 now) and love them both equally but one's in the closet.

But on topic, I kinda want a P8, it's not a P5 and doesn't have to be. I want the extra LFO's, Envs and PWM that's NOT tied to the Mod Wheel, the one thing about the Prophet I hate!
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Post by clusterchord » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:29 pm

calyx93 wrote:
clusterchord wrote:Prophet T8 is nothing but a P600 with 8-note polyphony and velocity/poly after touch w beautiful weighted keyboard. so it actually sounds not as big as P5, but its UI makes up for it. also it has operations divied among several cpus, instead of just one in P600, so its less cpu-underpowered (no knob value jumping, faster sftw envelopes etc).
It's apparent that you've not used the T8 at all :( .

The two CPUs (one being faster than the other just for speed in the EGs and other rapid functions) along with the more robust and quality circuitry results in a synth that has just as much punch and responsiveness as the 5, if not better. It's not even in the same league as the 600.
sure, isnt that what i just said about envelopes and cpu? yes it IS much faster n punchier than 600, and has no knob value jumping. and yes it has the best keyboard mechanism ever, and yes ive played it.

and i dont think its as fast as P5. ime theres not a single software envelope based synth from early 80s that has the exact right speed n shape to match them 3310s and 2056s. some got it little better than others like T8, MKS80 rev4 etc but thats as far as they went.

however to me the sound sure takes after 600 character more than after P5 rev3. to boot, all sound generating circuitry and chips are the SAME too. which aint a bad thing in itself, compared to P5, its a different VCF i.e. a 3372 which i feel is brighter and smoother than 3320. and a different 3360 VCA. further, T8 has full polymod, but also xtra mod routing destinations.. ie veloctiy and after touch - hence it surpasses P5 in modulation capability.

anyway, the poster asked for P5 "replacement" so i pointed out the main differences in sound character. whether someone thinks this is a bigger sound than P5 or not, is individual. my opinion is it is somewhat smaller, but much smoother and sparklier sound than (agressive) P5 rev3. nothing personal of course. truth be told, since i got an agressive CEM-based synth already, in form of OBXa, id much rather have a T8 than rev3.
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