J6 vs. P'08 vs ??? - help me pick an analog poly!

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Raiven
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Post by Raiven » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:23 pm

7Hz wrote:Tell us, in your infinite wisdom Raiven O great one, why you think the Nord is better than the JP-6?

Your humble servant,

7hz
There's no need for that and if your perceiving me as arrogant then I apologize.

It appears that we are offending folks enough to warrant moderation so lets just say that we ARE NOT even remotely going to agree or reach a middle ground on this matter and I'll go shadow again.

Fair enough?
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Post by 7Hz » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:11 pm

Sorry for slipping into sarcasm mode there guys.

I am genuinely interested in hearing Raiven's reasons for preferring the Nord, and I am happy to share my reasons for preferring the JP-6, and then we can leave it at that. At least then we can both express our positive views, without recourse to bringing each others good character into question :D
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Post by Jack Spider » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:55 pm

That's more like it, chaps - thanks! When you can't see eye-to-eye, it's often better to look at something else. :wink:
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Post by clusterchord » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:09 am

if i may, Jack, i think difference of opinion is always interesting read, to an extent - what i dislike is when someone resorts to name-calling and bashing ppl who happen to think differently,

and by doing so, in effect displays his/her own insecurities .. then again , that part is kinda amusing.


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Raiven
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Post by Raiven » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:21 am

clusterchord wrote:if i may, Jack, i think difference of opinion is always interesting read, to an extent - what i dislike is when someone resorts to name-calling and bashing ppl who happen to think differently,

and by doing so, in effect displays his/her own insecurities .. then again , that part is kinda amusing.


Tom
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So this is where you've been hiding.

Insecurities?! Well I never! :o
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Post by Raiven » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:26 am

Jack Spider wrote:That's more like it, chaps - thanks! When you can't see eye-to-eye, it's often better to look at something else. :wink:
Yeah!

Now lets get clusterchord! :x


:P
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Post by Raiven » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:03 am

7Hz wrote:
I am genuinely interested in hearing Raiven's reasons for preferring the Nord, and I am happy to share my reasons for preferring the JP-6, and then we can leave it at that. At least then we can both express our positive views, without recourse to bringing each others good character into question :D
Well then, shall I begin?

The Nord was such a surprisingly dynamic instrument for such a simple design that it changed my way of thinking. It could simply cover so much more ground than the JP-6 and all that ground well, that it simply blew me away. I also never had an instrument that worked with so many different FX processors well either. No matter what I paired it up with, it yielded great results and it already sounded pretty good WITHOUT FX.

The quality in the oscillators, filters, and converters are top notch. Also given its' portability, over 2 times a Jupiter 6's polyphony, and 4 part multi-timbral so in a way you get 4-5 voice synths.

Other than keeping it to capture those Larry Heard type sounds (Fan of his and the main reason I got a Jup-6 in the first place) I really didn't see the point in keeping it. The Jupiter 6 DOES have a distinctive tone I'll give you that but not $1300 distinctive that I couldn't get close enough on a Nord Lead 2X and do much more.

Owning a Nord Lead made me understand why folks from Jazz to Dance use it. IMHO it really is a crowning achievement for Clavia which is also a testament to why it's been around for so long.

So why do you still often want one even at say $750 Raiven?

Because of THAT tone that is great for ambient type music and for that type of music it has a fuller low midrange sound that the Nord can't achieve as well while being as subtle in the sound.

Your floor sir.
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Post by miket156 » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:49 pm

Interesting discussion, so far. One of the things that come into play when discussing different synths is....what kind of sounds are you most interested in creating and playing, and what kind of music are you using it for?

I listened to a lot of the demos of the Nord Lead when I was looking for a new synth about 3 years ago.

The Nord Lead is extremely CLEAN and "digital" sounding. It is NOT an analog clone. If you are creating sound effects, I think the Nord will get them as crystal clear as possible, in that price range of synths. For my taste, the Nord sound is too clean for "organic" analog sounds. Its not that you can't program those types of sounds, but a real analog is grittier, and more organic. So for musical tones, I would look elsewhere. Nord makes quality gear, a good, solid company. I would never worry about them being around in a year or two to get service, parts, updates, etc.

The J6 would probably sound a good bit more organic than the Nord Lead. Getting a vintage analog is a whole different ball game than buying any kind of new synth. You need not only the original investment, but money for parts and service after the fact, as well as somewhere to get it serviced. Its a long-term commitment.

The Prophet '08 is in a different league, I think. A NEW analog synth by Dave Smith, at a great price. Warranty, service, updates and Dave Smith for 2K USD. Bargain time. But you got to want that sound.

My 2 cents,


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Post by Jack Spider » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:45 pm

clusterchord wrote:if i may, Jack, i think difference of opinion is always interesting read, to an extent - what i dislike is when someone resorts to name-calling and bashing ppl who happen to think differently,

and by doing so, in effect displays his/her own insecurities .. then again , that part is kinda amusing.


Tom
analog slob who happens to like nord lead too. :P :P :P
Couldn't agree more, Tom, hence my not stomping down with the padlock. :wink: For a time, it did look like another playground scrap was brewing, a bud to be 'nipped', so to speak. To Raiven & 7Hz's credit, they remained amicable about their differences and another interesting discussion was born.

Andy (an impartial J6 owner, Nord Lead fan and P08 wanter :wink:)
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Post by Raiven » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:24 am

miket156 wrote:
The Nord Lead is extremely CLEAN and "digital" sounding. It is NOT an analog clone. If you are creating sound effects, I think the Nord will get them as crystal clear as possible, in that price range of synths. For my taste, the Nord sound is too clean for "organic" analog sounds. Its not that you can't program those types of sounds, but a real analog is grittier, and more organic. So for musical tones, I would look elsewhere. Nord makes quality gear, a good, solid company. I would never worry about them being around in a year or two to get service, parts, updates, etc.

The J6 would probably sound a good bit more organic than the Nord Lead. Getting a vintage analog is a whole different ball game than buying any kind of new synth. You need not only the original investment, but money for parts and service after the fact, as well as somewhere to get it serviced. Its a long-term commitment.

The Prophet '08 is in a different league, I think. A NEW analog synth by Dave Smith, at a great price. Warranty, service, updates and Dave Smith for 2K USD. Bargain time. But you got to want that sound.

My 2 cents,


Mike T.
All I did to dirty the Nord Lead sound up a bit when needed was run it through Live's saturator plug-in. That was all it took to do the trick.

A studio does not one synth make.

Since the Nord was pretty much modeled after the Prophet 5, I saw the Prophet 08 as a step above it. What you loose in polyphony, mutli-timbrality, and a multimode filter, is gained in modulation flexibility, more advanced arpeggiation, and a sequencer. Not to mention a top notch keybed.

And both adhere to the same basic concept of quality over fluff.
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Post by synthetic88 » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:49 am

The Virtual synths are nice to have, they seem to cut a bit more than my analogs can. I've actually been gassing for a Solaris or a Virus. I used Solaris for Scope for a while and it was very nice. I agree it doesn't do the warm, oogy analog thing, but when you need a bass part to cut through a dense arrangement it's a good thing to have as another color. I expect the Nords are similar to the Virus in that way.
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Post by Raiven » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:28 am

synthetic88 wrote:The Virtual synths are nice to have, they seem to cut a bit more than my analogs can. I've actually been gassing for a Solaris or a Virus. I used Solaris for Scope for a while and it was very nice. I agree it doesn't do the warm, oogy analog thing, but when you need a bass part to cut through a dense arrangement it's a good thing to have as another color. I expect the Nords are similar to the Virus in that way.
I got the Nord Lead 2X and a Virus C (Tabletop) at the same time and really didn't like the Virus. It had this incessant dark taint that I couldn't get rid of. Some people love that about it hence it's popularity but I'm definitely not one of them. The TI doesn't seem as bad but my experience with the C really turned me off to them. Didn't sound particularly well without it's FX on either.

I didn't keep them long. (Virus C tabletop and Virus C Rack XL)

But regardless, both seem to hold up well live against guitarists so both will easily keep space in a mix.
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Post by 7Hz » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:36 pm

Sorry for the delay in my reply here!

I think part of the problem with this whole discussion is we are getting into the whole analog vs digital thing, and that wasn't my purpose, because I specifically said at the start of the thread " help me pick an analog poly". So TBH bringing up the whole digital thing is not really welcomed with open arms.

Anyway, what I like about the Jupiter (or any real analog) is the way the components play of off each other. For example, the filter in the J6 reacts to the different settings, whereas on the Nord it is just dead flat. Same with modulation routings etc. I also love the inherent distortions and noise in these analog instruments, and again find the Nord totally lifeless and boring.

I don't care about polyphony and multitimbrality, I have enough synths, samplers, and multitrack.

I think that banging on about the price of the J6 is unnecessary and futile. The J6 is a brilliant value for money board, and what you want to pay for one or think they are worth has nothing to do with anything. There's one on eBay now for $1,499.99, 1 bid. In comparison, I think the Nord will (has?) dropped massively in price, and represents poor ROI if that is important to you.

I am wondering what 'much more' you can do with a Nord Lead than a J6 in terms of tones, I think the J6 has more variety.

I bought the J6 exactly for the tone. If you *have* to run an instrument through processors to get an interesting tone, it is not a good instrument.

I challenge you to sit down with a Nord and a J6, and program the same tone on both, and then tell me the Nord has a better, more lively and involving tone to it.
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Post by kuniklo » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:35 pm

I think the lack of a multimode filter is actually a pretty major downside for the P08. If it weren't for that I'd go P08 over J6 any day but the MM filter on the J6 might swing me that direction.

One downside of the J6 is that's pretty large, especially compared to the P08.

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Post by Vast Halo » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:25 pm

Another downside to the Jupiter-6 is that most of them are now approaching their 25th birthday, and they can and do develop disastrous faults as their components age. I tried one out a while back which sounded like a barrel organ when played polyphonically, from which I deduced that (at a minimum) the auto-tune had given up the ghost. Trying to get that repaired would no doubt have cost as much again as the Jupiter itself.

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