DSI Prophet 8

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maindeglorie
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Post by maindeglorie » Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:48 am

carbon111 wrote:Go play one. ;)

Its just my personal opinion that some patches are reminiscent of the CS and Obie synths...

Tweak it, play it, love it, take it home. :twisted:
I hate answers like that. I mean nothing personal to you. It's just that the reason I initially was asking this info is because I don't have access to a Prophet 08 within two and a half hours from me, so I thought I would come on to the forum, ask a relevant question about a synth to someone who actually owns it. Thanks for the info.

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Post by carbon111 » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:26 am

I was providing a jocular answer to a humorous jibe directed at myself :D

Describing sounds is useless. We've been hashing this out forever - one man's "fat" is another's "thin" - people do not agree.

I've owned a number of synths over the years including the Oberheim Matrix series and a hefty Yamaha CS-60 and have noticed some striking similarities on some P'08 patches and have said as much a number of times - that is what lay behind the other poster's gentle poke at me ;).

Listen to the demos everybody (including myself) posted and make up your mind that way if you cant demo one...

Here"s my earlier "capsule review":
Soundwise the Prophet'08 is very similar to the PEK with the following exceptions, the louder settings tend toward warm saturation-style distortion rather than clipping and, to me, the filter has a little bit more of that "CS80" vibe...slightly buzzy (but not in a bad way at all)...

Many of the presets are dual-layer and sound wonderful, but in a real-world mix, I think I would mainly end up using single-layer patches to preserve some bandwidth. There is such a thing as "too fat" ;)

Long soft evolving pads are easy to do as are "stacked" 16-osc basses (wow - serious "punch"!). The sound is rich without being overbearing. Thinner sounds are possible too but not as easy as the PEK as there's no highpass filter...even so, ripping leads are possible - the filter FM is nice for adding animation and the Sync can be brutal depending on the depth of the sweep..

The keybed is very nice! Similar to the one on my Oasys76 actually, its firm yet moderately weighted for a nice compromise between expression and speed. I prefer this key action over the PEK...but just by a bit, the PEK's is one of the better ones out there IMHO.

While I thought having the wheels "up there" was going to be a PITA, in practice it dosen't bother me at all, the heel of my hand rests nicely on the edge of the endcheek.

It dosen't show in the photos but all the panel lights are a very deep red.

A future classic if there ever was one...

Image
Currently my P'08, besides being a wonderful timbral source itself, is taking the role of controller for all my softsynths and a couple of modules in the studio, a job it performs rrather nicely...at this point I need to start mapping the knobs to MIDI CCs:

Image
Best Regards, James
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Post by gallant steve » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:12 pm

does all come down to subjective opinions of sound for all of us in the end, and obviously trying out personally's the best option for everyone, <if they're able to, that is> ., ....but also does look very clear to me one of the best things about the p8 is its versatility.

'nother useful old link for anyone who missed it first time round :
http://www.keyboardmag.tv/ ("dave smith" on the left hand side)

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Post by soundxplorer » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:29 am

abrokenframe wrote:those infinite pots really get to me.
I know what you mean. It's a tradeoff that probably keeps the price down.
It's better than not having any knobs at all, but I would of course always prefer standard pots. And it's not about "not knowing where parameter values are" like some people say. Most synths with patch memory have that problem (except the Nord 3 / Moog LP type of solution)
No, to me it's about live tweaking. What if I want to turn the Cutoff knob hitting 12 O'clock, 9 O'clock, 7 O'clock (etc.) exactly in time with the beat of the song? Can't do that if it takes two whole turns of the knob to go from 0 to 100%.
I think it matters more on a mono synth though. With a poly (for me) it's more about programming sounds and then just playing. But tweaking is a high priority on a mono. That's why I'd still rather have a Pro-One instead of a MEK.

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Post by Jazzpunk » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:36 am

carbon111 wrote:A future classic if there ever was one...
Thanks for all of the pics Carbon. That's one good looking 'controller'! The term 'instant classic' definitely comes to mind. :D

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Post by shaft9000 » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:40 pm

soundxplorer wrote:What if I want to turn the Cutoff knob hitting 12 O'clock, 9 O'clock, 7 O'clock (etc.) exactly in time with the beat of the song? Can't do that if it takes two whole turns of the knob to go from 0 to 100%.
a workaround would be to use the sequencer, synced to MIDI. you'd have to program in advance, and it won't sound the same as twisting by hand...but "in the mix" it may hardly matter for certain things.
plus, using the sequencer on the filter would enable you to keep a hand free to tweak something else on top of it :)
2600.solus.modcan a.eurorack.cs60.JP8.Juno6.A6.sunsyn.volcakeys.jd990.tb303.x0xb0x.revolution.
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Post by carbon111 » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:37 pm

soundxplorer wrote:It's a tradeoff that probably keeps the price down.
No, its a design choice. Encoders usually cost a little more than pots.

...the Idea is that you are always starting from where the parameter actually is when you move a knob. ;)

Try most any older programmable synth and you'll quickly realize why regular pots on a programable synth are complete a*s, regardless of what a wonderful synth it is. The "hook", "jump" and "average" options some programmables provide are annoying workarounds at best.

I'll agree, the only modern solution thats nice at all is the Nord Lead3 type UI but that is very expensive for manufacturers to implement per-knob so you won't see a lot of that unfortunately. :(
What if I want to turn the Cutoff knob hitting 12 O'clock, 9 O'clock, 7 O'clock (etc.) exactly in time with the beat of the song?
I would route the modwheel to filter cutoff and use that. It would be much easier to control accurately and a lot more ergonomic than a knob...thats why its a performance control. ;)
Best Regards, James
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Carbon111 Website: http://www.carbon111.com

Carbon111 Blog: http://carbon111.blogspot.com

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Post by MarkM » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:02 pm

The Little Phatty has a nice solution for the knob jump on programmables. I wish the RAC was on the Voyager as well.

Nice photos Carbon! That's a nice work station you have set up.

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Post by soundxplorer » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:09 pm

carbon111 wrote:No, its a design choice. Encoders usually cost a little more than pots.
Then it's a design choice that I disagree with.
Nothing will please 100% of the people 100% of the time :)

I mentioned the NL3 too, and it's a great solution. Too bad it's expensive.

I've owned a Juno-60, PolySix and Prophet-600. In the category of endless rotaries, I've owned an Evolver and an ION. I love the sound of the Evolver and the P'08, but I still enjoy the normal pots on the aforementioned vintage polys much better than the endless encoders, even though the tradeoff is the "jump" in parameter values. I guess I just like knowing where "zero" and "max" are when I tweak something. I'll go even further than that and say that I prefer sliders over pots :)

Even when choosing a MIDI controller, I went for the Oxygen49 because it has pots (and sliders!) instead of encoders.

Bottom line: the encoders won't keep me from buying a P'08. I still want one. But that doesn't change my knob preference. And the mod wheel is a good solution if you set up a patch for performance. But it doesn't change the situation for general programming of all parameters.

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Post by jko » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:53 am

carbon111 wrote: a Yamaha CS-60 and have noticed some striking similarities on some P'08 patches and have said as much a number of times
There have been a couple of demos posted on Nabble and KVR pointing in that direction.

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Post by calyx93 » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:40 am

carbon111 wrote:
OggeOJ wrote:Is it something that ive missed, or where is the poly-mod?
"Polymod" was a buzzword for an extremely limited summed 2 X 3 modulation matrix. The P'08 has a nice dedicated true modmatrix plus quite a lot of hardwired mod destinations on it. Osc-->Filter Cutoff even has a dedicated knob on the panel! ;)

The only Modulations not available on the P'08 that you could get on the P5 was Osc-->Osc mod and Osc-->PW mod. Fortunately, on the P'08 you can use audio-rate LFOs in place of the first Osc in those examples to get the same results...the LFOs can even track the keyboard pitch if you like. So, in the end, you can replicate all your favorite P5 mod topologies though its more fun to come up with new ones IMHO.

Unlike the P5 that only had a few mod sources and destinations, the P'08 is a bit more flexible:
James, forgive me and call me lazy and ignorant, but didn't I read that the LFO's didn't go very far (upwards) into the audio range? If so, then it really can't replicate the P-5 or P-600 poly-mod section as you say it can. Again, it's late, and this weeks workload has drained me to the point of not being able to search this out from the documentation due to pure exhaustion - so please, feel free to admonish me over any oversight.

I know you've owned the 600, and I know you appreciated its sonic palette (one of the reasons I still keep mine), but I still need to be convinced to give up (and I really do want to sell it due to its inevitable demise) my beloved P-5.

This seems to me to be a better alternative to the Creamware Pro-12. I've been contemplating that as a P-5/600 replacement, but have been having strange intuitions to NOT do that as of late. I've been holding out, hoping that this will be THE replacement for both (and I AM open to a slightly more modern sound + the reliability and suppport).

Thanks!
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Post by DocT » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:48 am

calyx93 wrote: James, forgive me and call me lazy and ignorant, but didn't I read that the LFO's didn't go very far (upwards) into the audio range? If so, then it really can't replicate the P-5 or P-600 poly-mod section as you say it can.
You can modulate osc frequency with an LFO on the P8 but the usable frequency range of the LFO is narrow and the result does sound different from the analog osc or pw audio modulation of a Prophet 5.

The P8's mod matrix is without doubt more flexible and powerful than that of the P5, but people who are thinking about replacing a P5 with a P8 should consider that pulse width and osc pitch FM are actually not present in the P8.

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Post by synthshaw » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:32 pm

I demo'd one in turnkey last week and was shocked at how frail it felt. The pots had quite a bit of sidewards movement in them and felt as though they would come off in my hand at any time. I wonder how many will last the test of time like their ancestors . It did sound nice mind, but the continuous pots and build quality just put me off. Not a 'patch' on my Pro one, and they say the Pro1's where fragile, more like tanks compared with the Pro 08s.

Just my opinion of course but i was very disappointed with it.

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Post by jko » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:37 pm

How do other users feel about sturdiness of controllers and knobs for the po8 ?

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Post by megawatt » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:46 pm

jko wrote:How do other users feel about sturdiness of controllers and knobs for the po8 ?
I love the controllers - I use my ears when making sounds, not values and dig how the knobs have immediate control over the sound. I also find them nice to the touch and responsive but not jumpy like the Evolvers.

I've not noticed any sideways play in the controllers after a few months of heavy playing compared to other synths with similar designs. Synths in consumer stores are often mistreated though... as an owner I'm very happy with the build quality.

My honeymoon period is way over on this synth and the fact is I'm happy I married her.
Last edited by megawatt on Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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