Modular Moog

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Peake
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Post by Peake » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:32 am

Here is a scan of a 1965 version of the 910 power supply:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id ... 476&size=l

And here is the Moog Modular Service Manual:

http://www.emusic-diy.org/MoogManuals#h ... d81808e3ac

Cheers!
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Post by PolarAC » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:07 am

You can probably have a professional tech come out there to look at it. I sure you can find one. Even if they lived in L.A., I'm sure someone wouldn't have a problem making the drive to see that beast.

I'd be concerned taking and leaving it somewhere to be serviced though.

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Post by badhatharry » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:51 am

Wow, Peake, thanks for those. Those are great. And yeah, I am concerned with taking the unit somewhere to have it serviced, besides, I don't think my employers would want it just sent somewhere.

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Post by Chaorta » Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:39 am

Christ, what a find.

Call up Lightner, get that puppy restored, and set up a small studio for us to fly out to and pay to use :)
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midiwall
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Post by midiwall » Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:49 am

So bhh and I have been chatting over on the MatrixSynth blog... This is a better forum to continue in.


I still maintain that you don't know what you have. What you "know" is that you have something a) rare, b) worth enough for a down payment on a nice house, c) something that will get the attention of many people in the world, d) something that will be the envy of people on forums such as this.


I'll give you that you understand electron flow, but what you don't understand is the circuits - or the lack there of - in the machine that's sitting in front of you.

You may understand an electronics world where there are regulators to flatten voltages and caps to filter noise and diodes as security against reverse current flow. You will find VERY little of that in this machine.

Mike ("peake" on here) talked about the 910 supply not having crowbar protection. Do you understand the significance of that? He kinda let on to it, but it'll be important for you to UNDERSTAND it. If you don't, you'll experience it, and that's not good.

Over on Matrix (by proxy) you said:
I'm not so arrogant as to suggest that you don't try to call me out on things if you feel I am doing something wrong,
There are a lot of people here doing just that, and I'm not seeing anything from you 'cept spit to tell people that you know what you're doing. So let's run back to that contact cleaner example again and see how you're doing.

Any chance that you work on cars? Ever sprayed brake cleaner into a brake drum? Notice how all the brake dust and road grime just falls off into the bottom of the drum? GREAT stuff that brake cleaner. Now think about where all the c**p fell into as you sprayed contact cleaner into the pots.

Then, I hear you saying a lot that you work with people a lot smarter than you, and that you're going to them for advice along the way. Would this be an example of their thinking?
I heard from a friend who's the smartest person I have ever met that that thing won't blow until around 30v
A couple of folks above tried to take you to task for that one... It's a really shortsighted statement and is a prime example of how you - and the people around you - do NOT know what you're doing.

Do you understand how a capacitor ages? Do you know how the different types age? Do you know that if those electrolytics in the PS short out that you'll have a nice looking fire on your hands? Do you know that a stored electrolytic may not leak for decades, but applying power will instantly weaken them significantly?

Do you know what happens when the electrolyte leaks? They'll open (good for you) or they'll short (bad for you).

When they short, as Mike pointed out, you're gonna get a whole bunch-o voltage down those wires. Every module in that box will be toast.

Your "down payment on a house" just became charcoal for the grill and a trip to the scrap yard.


The people that are on your case here are NOT really trying to chastise you. They're caring about the gear, they want to see it be taken care of, they want to see it be used. This is _our_ _passion_. You've admitted that it's not your passion.

If you had come onto this site and said "wow... I found this in a closet, I have a chance to fire it up, what should I do?" it would have been a COMPLETELY different thread. I know most of the people here that are on your case and every one of them is FULL of an INCREDIBLE amount of information that can help you.

But pretty much from your first reply back to someone that challenged your methods, you've been cocky.


Here's a possibly tell-tale question... How long do you think it will take you to restore that?


Look dude, you could have simply one of the finest examples of a Moog modular in the _world_. You've attracted our attention... now you need to accept our help. But first you have to ask for it, doing so will be a nice step in the direction of making us believe that you really do care and that you accept that you do NOT know what you're in front of.
:: Mark

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Post by MarkM » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:50 pm

After reading this thread, if I was to find a wonderful synth like this Moog modular, I'd be reluctant to share it on the internet. The negativity of many of the virtual experts telling me what I should or shouldn't do, like some overbearing authorative father, would be a turn off. A simple warning like, "turning it on without a diagnostic checkup might harm some circuits," would suffice.

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Post by midiwall » Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:23 pm

MarkM wrote:After reading this thread, if I was to find a wonderful synth like this Moog modular, I'd be reluctant to share it on the internet. The negativity of many of the virtual experts telling me what I should or shouldn't do, like some overbearing authorative father, would be a turn off. A simple warning like, "turning it on without a diagnostic checkup might harm some circuits," would suffice.
He was told that on the first page, he rejected the advice, things got ugly.
:: Mark

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Soundwave
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Post by Soundwave » Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:52 pm

I wonder how much this monolith is worth fully working?

I reckon around 15k queens heads at least in this neck of the woods especially with two sequencers.

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Post by badhatharry » Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:52 pm

Here's a quote from Midiwall from over at the Martixsynth blog
You asked for this kind of feedback by making any of this public. You need to be able to accept it.
Really? Please, tell me where I said "Hey, Midiwall, please, be a d**k to me." I'm not auditioning for you. I'm working on it, and unless you come over and stab me and steal it, I will continue to work on it. There are a lot of people on here who are kind and helpful, and I thank all of you. However, there is a small percentage of people like you who are just assholes. I mean, really, you joined this forum just to yell at me. Don't you have anything better to do?

And by your quote above, the price I pay for telling people about this is that I have to put up with people like you? I thought people would want to hear about something like this. I had some questions about how to manipulate the sound coming out of this thing, and while no one was obligated to help me with that, there were many people who were kind enough to do so. On the flip side, I figured there would be a small group of fanatics who would act like I was dangling a baby in front of a cobra, but I underestimated the level of your crazy. So why don't you and that other insane poster get together and sit shiva for a synth that I am going to cause to burst into flames. You're acting like I'm a westerner who just walked into Mecca. Go find better ways to occupy your time.

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Post by badhatharry » Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:54 pm

What are Queen's Heads? We have Benjamins over here.

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Post by daddio » Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:06 pm

midiwall wrote:He was told that on the first page, he rejected the advice, things got ugly.
The way I read it, the advice came after the fact and YOU got ugly. It's one thing to politely offer advice, it's totally another to dent his hat over and over with it.

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Post by Soundwave » Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:53 pm

badhatharry wrote:What are Queen's Heads? We have Benjamins over here.
Image

Any advance on 15K?????

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Post by gallant steve » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:27 pm

the most possible help is always the best option with a piece like this , but you do sound affronted at the idea that anyone who isn't an 100% paid up vintage synth specialist coud even have the right to use an instrument like this, Midiwall . A lot of care and expert attention it definitely needs, but that doesn't mean it's the preserve of vintage synth experts only for its *use* - its actually an * instrument * first and foremost, just one that needs a lot of expert care and knowledge to protect & keep running, and solid but not rare knowledge to understand functionally.
Last edited by gallant steve on Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by synthetic88 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:20 pm

Why the vitriol? He's not going to sell it, he doesn't even own it. He's restoring it for his employer. If he burns up a module, he doesn't owe the synth internet an apology. It would be a shame, and there are a few people better qualified to work on it, but cut the guy some slack.

And it's not like there are a ton of guys who do know how to work on this and are available. Lightner isn't taking new jobs, and sounds semi-retired due to medical issues.
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Post by Peake » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:41 pm

You may not care for the -way- Mark said it, but -what- he said is the truth, regarding the very real, very large danger of catastrophe via the 910.

Really. I used to use a 910 in mine, fully aware of the danger involved, but that's because of the particular level of a*s within me. I would never recommend that someone else use the 910 without crowbar protection being involved.

There must be two PSs; I don't think that a single 910 could power up that entire system (or the sequencer would cause a big droop as each stage engages, which would be audible in pitch, etc.)

According to Kevin Lightner, there are typos and omissions in the Service Manual. This may have been to prevent people from lifting the circuitry (which happened at least once, back in the day). It can only get you so far, but is invaluable in the meantime.

There are a couple of items in the system that are difficult to find, if they turn up dead- especially, IIRC, a main IC in the sequencer. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm parroting things I've heard elsewhere, from people who know more than I do.

Still and always, congrats, enjoy, and please heed the warnings of your new friends :D
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