Questions about a couple modules in my modular system

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Bitexion
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Questions about a couple modules in my modular system

Post by Bitexion » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:38 am

Hey,

I recently acquired an RS-200 sequencer for my Analogue systems synth.
With it came a sequential switch and Gated Delay.

I dunno if any of you know these modules well, but it's worth a shot.
I really can't figure out what to do with the Gate Delay. I've read the manual PDF, but it makes no sense in a musical meaning. It's one of those modules you'll never ever see on a non-modular synth, so it's new to me.
It isn't a normal delay as you think of it, it's a delay that delays trigger and gate signals, not audio signals.

What's the most useful application for this module? It has me kind of beat.
I've heard the gate delay is nearly essential together with the step sequencer. I just don't see why :)

Sequential switch is also a new concept to me, but I'm grasping it a little better at least..I can use it to extend the sequence to 24 steps (all 3 rows), have it bounce back and forth between rows etc. I suppose I could use it to switch between different signal paths with a trigger clock pulse too. It has 4 inputs and 1 output.
What I'd like from this thread is some guidelines to how I can get the most out of these modules. I know they are common amongst many manufacturers as pure utility modules (not audio modules). Help me out, please :) I feel like I have a solid grasp on the other modules (and subtractive synthesis), but these are new concepts to me.

The rest of my system is currently:

2 VCO's, EG, Multimode filter, Modulation controller (LFO, noise gen, S&H, small vca), VCA, frequency divider, step sequencer, gate delay, sequential switch.

Here's links to manuals for both modules:
http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/modules/rs340.htm (delay)

http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/modules/rs150.htm (switch)

http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/modules/rs200.htm (sequencer, just for fun)

PS: The pic in my sig is a mismatch now, because I ripped out 50% of the modules to make room for the huge sequencer. They're resting inside a box until further notice :P

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Post by Zamise » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:22 am

It might be good for snare rolls? I use something called a midi delay on one of my synth/seq. It sounds like from what you say may be similar which I'll often make great use of for long snare rolls and multiplying hi-hats. As well as, the delay can be timed or randomly adjust and or sweeped at lower and higher velocities and counts, sort of like effects delay except midi is actually being triggered while the original also remains at its constant sequenced rates. So, it can eat up poly like a mofo, which you may not have to worry about since your just dealing with voltages and triggers I don't know, but maybe its nothing like my midi delay at all too, so I'm just throwing an idea out there for ya.
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Post by Bitexion » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:41 am

I can use it to create double triggers fast after eachother for envelopes, yeah. Like as the manual says, have one sound path create a "chiff" sound almost immediately followed by the flute body, instead of triggering both at the same time (sounding unnatural).

Seeing that 61 people read the thread and 1 answered, I guess there aren't alot of modular people in here today :)

I just wonder why it would be "almost essential" with the sequencer.

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Post by meatballfulton » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:43 pm

Geez, Bitexion the manuals give you examples of uses!

Most modular systems offer something similar because simple stepping is pretty boring (sorry all you x0x fans) unless you're a TD tribute act 8)

Like any other module, it's always useful (and fun) to just patch the outputs into different places and hear what happens.
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Post by Dirk » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:44 pm

The delay unit is used to create more interesting rhythms than that are possible with just a gate sequenser.
Or to change a gate signal into a trigger signal and visa versa.
You could also use it with audio sources, to make a strange kind of pulse oscillator.

The sequential switch is used to make longer sequenses, just like you said.
But you could also use an audio rate vco pulse as trigger and put the different outputs of a vco into the inputs. Now you switch waveshapes at audio rates, this can create some very cool sounds. Try vco's tuned at different intervals as well. Sync them is cool to, you get the point.....
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Post by Peake » Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:54 pm

Gate delays can do subharmonic synthesis, add swing to rhythms, and let you do flams or any sort of (single) echo'd synthesis (there was a track on the old Cosmos series with a melodic line of one timbre and a different timbre repeated the line with a short delay. nice.).

Sequential switches can sometimes do audio and CV, so you can step between audio sources or modulators, or even entirely different audio-rate modulation sources. In terms of sequencing, add something like a MiniDoc synchronizer, tap out the triplet multiplications and use the switch to, at will, step between regular rhythm and triplets. That last is unconfirmed, but it looks like the MiniDoc will output higher clocks than the input.

Remember the neat timing tricks on Tangerine Dream's "Thief" sequences?
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Post by Bitexion » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:28 pm

Thanks for good ideas. I don't understand how to use the delay physically in a patch. You say you create double triggers or interesting rythmical effects..but the thing has one input and one output..it just boggles my mind how to use it. With the sequencer for instance.
If I plug a trigger output from the sequencer (say trigger 1, row 1) to the input on the delay, and from output to VCO CV In (or an EG trig in)
then every beat will be delayed, so the rythm is unchanged?

My sequencer has the possibility to decide which step will send a trigger, though (flip switches). I guess I could use Trigger 1 only on certain steps, only those steps would be delayed then, right?
Thinking out loud now, am still at work dying to get home :shock:

I discovered that modulating the sequencer frequency with an LFO created very cool rythmical variations, but very unpredictable aswell.
Also that by sending noise into the CV input of the frequencer, and "skipping" all the steps would send it into random steps.

I'll try the various things you mention with the switch, sounds interesting.
Last edited by Bitexion on Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by JackAstro » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:32 pm

Dirk wrote:The delay unit is used to create more interesting rhythms than that are possible with just a gate sequenser.
I was thinking that too. You could use it to trigger the hats in your patch and give you some nice hard swing sixteenths.

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Post by carbon111 » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:53 pm

Bitexion wrote:Thanks for good ideas. I don't understand how to use the delay physically in a patch.
Take a gate or trig, mult it so you've got three or four copies of it run each one through a different delay with a different offset, ect...

Experiment! :D
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Post by REwire » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:43 pm

The Gate Delay module was one I wanted but I ended up selling it because it annoyed me. Here's the deal. I wanted that Cosmos type effect where one Osc was playing a melody just a beat behind the other one, as if there was a digital delay on it. Problem is, Gate Delays like this have a delay knob and a length knob. The delayed gate only triggers for a preset time, so if I held a note down, the other one would cut out at the preset time always.

I told this to Peter Grenader of Plan-B and he said he would design a module that does what I want: Delay the incoming gate, sample it, and hold it for the same duration as you hold it down. Then stop it at the same delay time after you let off the gate. That gives perfect delays, but needs to be digital. The Plan-B Model 19: http://www.ear-group.net/model_19.html will do what I want but is not gonna be around for a while. Peter's buliding other stuff first.

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Post by hogberto » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:34 am

Here's what Bob Williams says about the gate delay on the ASys site:

"There are occasions on which you may want to generate a Gate or Trigger at some specified time after a sonic event occurs.

This, for example, allows you to use two VCO/VCF/VCA signal paths - one slightly delayed with respect to the other - to create a single, composite sound each time that you press a key. You could use one VCO/VCF/VCA path to place a "chiff" at the start of a flute or woodwind note, and the second to generate a sustained sound that imitates the body of the real instrument. Alternatively, you can use this technique to create interesting rhythmic structures in which one percussive sound is followed closely by another."

The second one sounds like fun to me.

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Post by Bitexion » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:39 am

It does sound cool but I can't figure out how to actually DO it.

I spent a while now messing about with triggers from the sequencer. I just made a simple 8-step bass/snare drum rythm. Sent Trigger 3 (the "snare", just a burst of noise really) through the delay. I could delay it and set how long the gate should be open.

I can't figure out how to use different soundpaths and delay one from the other and hear it through the VCA. Maybe I have too few modules in here to do that.

I messed about with the seq.switch too, sent audio rate clock signal and had it alternate between several waveforms, and the output to the VCA. But it wasn't really much different from ringmod sound to be honest. Couldn't play a pitched sound with it.

One really cool thing I did today though, was to use audio rate modulation of the sequencer clock, and send the output of Row A to the VCA. It acted kind of like a harmonic generator, where each knob on the sequencer's A row would add or subtract harmonics from the sound. And I could play that as a normal waveform. It sounded like some digital waveform.

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Post by Dirk » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:53 am

For the delay line sound you need 2 full synth paths, and a s&h to delay the cv signal for the vco.

The RS-60 envelopes have an extra trigger input, you could put the trigger delay output into that input for retriggering.

If you don't like the trigger delay, you can alway's sell it to me.
Bitexion wrote: I messed about with the seq.switch too, sent audio rate clock signal and had it alternate between several waveforms, and the output to the VCA. But it wasn't really much different from ringmod sound to be honest. Couldn't play a pitched sound with it.

The output frequency of the seq switch should be the same as the input frequency of the trigger vco.
I can post some examples of the clavia micro modulair.
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Post by Dirk » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:19 am

Here's a picture of the patch.
[img=http://aycu39.webshots.com/image/30678/ ... 661_th.jpg]

I used a crossfader (the micromod does not have a sequential switch), with the sequential switch you have more than 2 inputs and thus much more sound options.
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