Vintage vs. New

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
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JSRockit
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Post by JSRockit » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:46 am

D-Collector wrote:Old synthesizers have personality, unlike most modern gear.
Come on... there is alot of great equipment out now.
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Post by supermel74 » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:04 am

D-Collector wrote:Old synthesizers have personality, unlike most modern gear.
Completely untrue imo.

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Post by supermel74 » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:06 am

RobotHeroes wrote:
esqoner wrote:just because something takes longer doesn't mean it is better or more deserving.
True. But give a person that knows little about music some software and they could fumble something out in no time, not going into it being good music or not. Give the same person 2 synths, a drum machine, a guitar and a 4 track recorder and they would be lost in space.
Not neccessarily. If anything, the hardware would be easier to use

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Post by RobotHeroes » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:19 am

supermel74 wrote:
RobotHeroes wrote:
esqoner wrote:just because something takes longer doesn't mean it is better or more deserving.
True. But give a person that knows little about music some software and they could fumble something out in no time, not going into it being good music or not. Give the same person 2 synths, a drum machine, a guitar and a 4 track recorder and they would be lost in space.
Not neccessarily. If anything, the hardware would be easier to use
How would synths, guitars and other hardware be easier to use for a person that can't play them?
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Post by supermel74 » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:22 am

RobotHeroes wrote:
supermel74 wrote:
RobotHeroes wrote: True. But give a person that knows little about music some software and they could fumble something out in no time, not going into it being good music or not. Give the same person 2 synths, a drum machine, a guitar and a 4 track recorder and they would be lost in space.
Not neccessarily. If anything, the hardware would be easier to use
How would synths, guitars and other hardware be easier to use for a person that can't play them?
Because you can do the same things that you can do on software except that it's usually more immediate on hardware. Not talking about guitars here, just synths/drum machines/sequencers/etc

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Post by space6oy » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:22 am

Soundwave wrote:You can get a vintage tone from many modern analogues and I can manipulate stuff whilst playing on my Monomachine and KP3 much faster than any kid dragging a mouse.
what about a kid with a mouse AND some behringer USB gadget that puts a whole bunch of assignable knobs in front of him?

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Post by JSRockit » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:23 am

RobotHeroes wrote: How would synths, guitars and other hardware be easier to use for a person that can't play them?
A few chords on the guitar is pretty easy to learn. Synths...it's not much harder to play a few notes vs. writing them in with a mouse. Music does not get written by itself...despite the belief by some that computers do everything for you.
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Post by RobotHeroes » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:43 am

supermel74 wrote:Because you can do the same things that you can do on software except that it's usually more immediate on hardware. Not talking about guitars here, just synths/drum machines/sequencers/etc
Apart from load times, aren't they both about the same? Some software UI's are made well enough to yield results as fast as hardware can. I was thinking more about what it took to write music and sound modeling up there for some reason. :lol:

Regardless I like vintage gear as well as new gear for the reasons I wrote up there.

Vintage + Modern makes for some diverse sounds.

Edit:
JSRockit wrote:A few chords on the guitar is pretty easy to learn. Synths...it's not much harder to play a few notes vs. writing them in with a mouse. Music does not get written by itself...despite the belief by some that computers do everything for you.
I was thinking more about someone bonding with their instrument rather than just playing it to play it and not care. As for computers...yeah I am sure there are a lot of dunce caps out there that think that. Dunce caps because if that were true a computer wouldn't need a user. Then we would all be f**k because they would kill us.

Computers facilitate a lot in one machine but without any talent it's just as useless as any hardware. Except it holds p**n and can play some mean chess.
Last edited by RobotHeroes on Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by OriginalJambo » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:51 am

Maybe people buy vintage because it's cheaper in the short term? Try finding a modern poly analogue synth for much under $2000.

Also in many cases they are more solidly build - metal and not plastic.

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Post by REwire » Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:38 am

I keep getting drawn to vintage because I discover more interesting things in the past than are coming out these days. Someone building a new analog is usually copying something from the past. Some are innovators like Jomox, but even the Macbeth M5 is a Moog Modular clone in an Arp2600 package and few non digital synths conquer new sonic ground. I just saw a Youtube demo of the Crumar Spirit and I was impressed. How many have heard all the great stuff that came before? You could demo all that's made the next ten years and never hear all the amazing synths of the analog years. I still haven't tried a Synton Syrinx, Jupiter-4, Chroma, Arp Quadra, EMu Modular, Memorymoog and hundreds more. The future is open wide!
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Post by Entropy Farmer » Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:11 am

JSRockit wrote:A few chords on the guitar is pretty easy to learn. Synths...it's not much harder to play a few notes vs. writing them in with a mouse. Music does not get written by itself...despite the belief by some that computers do everything for you.
Amen. I have no keyboard playing skills to speak of, but it is so much easier to bang out a melody with one in front of you. Same with mod wheel shenanigans.

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Post by uncle silas » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:10 am

I land on the side of cost. As expensive as vintage is you can generally find vintage for far less than new. I bought a JP6 for $700 but would rather have a P08.

It's a gamble but it's been good to me so far.

Also, the last band I was in I used a midi controller and a computer and realized that I hated that more than words after a few practices. The drummer sits down. The guitarist plugs in. All the while I would sit there f**k with a VSTi forever while they waited, then I'd plug in my bass and have to tune up. Then levels were always crazy. I decided that I needed a machine that had nobs so I could turn it on and go, no fuss.

Next figure in that I'm poor and you'll see why I like vintage.

Plus I get pysically sick when I sit down at the Alesis QS8.1 I own and put it on the 'Dirty Rhodes' patch. It makes me want to kill the Alesis engineer who thought that sound was on the same continent as the rhodes sound....omfg. Far too much of that on post-digital synths. It was so bad I had to buy a Rhodes.

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Post by neandrewthal » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:05 am

I agree with psy_free, AG, REwire and Silas. When I got into synths I had no clue about all the new synths that were out there and I was not impressed with what the mainstream had to offer in my area(tritons) This led me to try vintage synths and consequently fall in love with the sound/feel/aesthetic. Sure there are a lot of great new analogs, but I have issues with many of the top ones: Andromeda - Menu diving, LP - only 7 knobs!, P8 - rotary encoders. Still, there are many I would love,(Voyager, M5, Sunsyn) but they are still more expensive and harder to find second hand than the old analogs(ok maybe not the voyager), though this is becoming less of an issue every day as new affordable analogs are introduced and vintage prices creep higher. If I were still in the market for an MS-20 today I would definitely consider the XS or Red Square instead.
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Post by eskimo » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:17 am

Forgive me, because I've been drinking but--

I once heard "You develop your style through your physical limitations"

That was back in the day when we actually had some limits to adhere to.
I find that new gear has very few of those. Analog modeling? -check- FM synthesis?-check- Sample-Rompler-whatever? -che..- 550 effects? midi cc EVERY GD EVENT ?? combine all for 'TOTALLY NEW HARMONIC STYLE" -Check- CHECK-CHECK-!!!!!!!
Pricetage, under 1100$?
Sure, why not. It can be done now, easy. Have two and add some free VST synths from the net. Very quickly you are completely unhinged from any sonic limitation at all.

Holy c**p, at one time all I had was a Korg M1, and I had to try and make that sound as hardcore as possible. Then I got a Roland S10, with 4 seconds of sample power + a fuzz box.. Now, I have too many options. Actually, I'm thoroughly convinced that buying a Nord Modular is what killed any creative force I ever had. After I got that, all I wanted to do if find the perfect beep. 7 years later.. I still haven't found it. I play with the m-er f'er all day.

I played the Virus TI.. I still have wood. I want a MicroMachine.. BAD.
But no, in reality it's not what I really need. I need limitations, a glass ceilling that will allow me to stop, play, finish, and polish whatever turd I have and call it:
"my turd" -dance remix

Screw it, give me Juno106.
I vote vintage.
I think I have finally gotten over my NM sickness. I just got a DX200 off the net. I'm afraid it will probably kill any sense of creativity I have. Hopefully, it gets lost in the mail.
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Post by JJQ » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:23 am

I think AG, neandrewthal and many more have good points. I like the sound, interface and pricing of vintage gear.

And I want the instrument to have a personality (and limitations), in the studio i picure myself as a bandleader and the synthesizers as my bandmembers... :roll:

But Im seriously considering geting a new modular...cotk or .com or something.
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