Lose a triangle gain a sinewave-Pros/Cons?

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
Jazzpunk
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:48 pm

Lose a triangle gain a sinewave-Pros/Cons?

Post by Jazzpunk » Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:35 am

I recently purchased an Omega 8 (which I am LOVING!) and have been looking at some of the upgrade options.

There is an option that would change the triangle wave on osc one to a sinewave which sounds intriguing.

I have never owned a synth with a sinewave generator before so I am not clear on what I would be gaining or potentially losing if I was to do this mod. I am assuming it does something interesting or they wouldn't offer it!

Is there a definitive synth sound that defines why having a sinewave in the mix would be desireable?

Any info appreciated.

User avatar
xpander
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1541
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:15 am
Gear: UltraProteus, Xpander, 200e, Minimoogs, Radias, Prophet VS, PolyEvolver, Arp 2600
Location: los gatos, california
Contact:

Post by xpander » Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:39 am

well, you will lose all of the triangle wave's harmonics that make subtractive synthesis fun. i would skip it. that's the reason you don't see sine waves often on the front panel of analog synthesizers.

Jazzpunk
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:48 pm

Post by Jazzpunk » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:00 am

Thanks for the input xpander. I should've mentioned that there is a triangle wave on osc two but not sure that makes a difference for what you are saying.

User avatar
xpander
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1541
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:15 am
Gear: UltraProteus, Xpander, 200e, Minimoogs, Radias, Prophet VS, PolyEvolver, Arp 2600
Location: los gatos, california
Contact:

Post by xpander » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:10 am

it doesn't make any difference unless it can be used as an LFO, in which a sine may be desirable instead of a triangle. otherwise, losing a triangle wave for a sine wave would be a poor idea since you are looking for waveforms rich with harmonics that you can filter out to create your sounds.

User avatar
memo
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 3:53 am
Location: Berkeley, CA
Contact:

Post by memo » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:24 am

Since it's unlikely that you'd ever use two triangles, I'd seriously consider switching.

Sine waves might not have harmonics, but the strong fundamental makes it great for adding subbass. Use PWM on oscillator 2, and add the sine wave an octave below it, and you can create really fat bass.

For 2 oscillator bass, pure sine waves are great subs because you don't have to worry about the harmonics phase canceling out the second oscillator.
Image

User avatar
Carey M
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:08 pm
Gear: Akai Miniak, Fender Chroma Polaris, Moog Sub Phatty, Roland SH-101, Roland Jupiter-4, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Komplete 8, Reaper, iPad, beer
Band: Nightsatan
Location: Turku, Finland, EU
Contact:

Post by Carey M » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:47 am

On Yamaha CS-synths the sine comes after filters, which is useful when used in combination with a high/bandpass filter. Don't know about the Omega / CODE.

Are there any other uses for a sine oscillator, except for subbass?

And congrats on your Omega, Jazzpunk! I've lusted after an Omega for some time now, so I'm extremely envious. I caught your demos on Gearslutz (I'm a regular lurker), sounds superb =P~

- CM

User avatar
Big Gnome
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:14 am
Gear: E-mu Proteus 2500
Ensoniq ESQ-1
Ensoniq VFX
SCI Prelude
Waldorf Blofeld
Band: The Nondescript
Location: Oakland, CA
Contact:

Post by Big Gnome » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:10 pm

Unless the Omega 8 has facilities such as FM or ring modulation that you intend to use, I wouldn't bother.
"Sure that's fine in practice, but what about in theory?"
Some of my c**p

User avatar
kuroichi
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1232
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:43 am

Post by kuroichi » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:14 pm

Sine waves can be good for producing percussive type sounds also. which may be of interest to you, but that just depends on what you mainly use it for
Come on Bennett.... Let's Party!

User avatar
memo
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 3:53 am
Location: Berkeley, CA
Contact:

Post by memo » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:47 pm

kuroichi wrote:Sine waves can be good for producing percussive type sounds also. which may be of interest to you, but that just depends on what you mainly use it for
That's a great point - I often prefer sine wave based kicks compared to triangle.

Big Gnome wrote:Unless the Omega 8 has facilities such as FM or ring modulation that you intend to use, I wouldn't bother.
I'm pretty sure it has cross mod, and it's nice to have a sine wave for any FM work.
Image

User avatar
Bitexion
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 4230
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:43 pm
Gear: Alesis Andromeda A6
Roland D-50
Creamware Minimax
Yamaha DX7s
Analogue Systems modular
Ensoniq SQ-80
Waldorf Blofeld
Location: Drammen, Norway

Post by Bitexion » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:48 pm

Sine waves are boring waveforms, since they contain no harmonics you can't filter them. A filter only reduces the volume. That's why you rarely see a pure sinewave on synths. The triangle is more interesting and musical. If your filter self oscillates, you'll use that as bassdrum creator anyways.

synthshaw
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:11 pm
Location: uk

Post by synthshaw » Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:19 pm

The SH-2 also has a sine wave on osc 1. As people have already said, they're good for kick drums and low bass boom behind the other oscillator. If you have a triangle wave on the other oscillator it should be worth doing the mod.

User avatar
Uncle Screwtape
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:45 am
Real name: Jay
Gear: Access Virus Indigo
Alesis ion
Arturia MiniBrute SE
DSI Mopho
Novation KS4
Vermona DRM1 MkIII
Roland TR-707
Korg DDD-5
Korg Volcas (4)
Band: Uncle Screwtape
Location: Za Doonjun, Oakhurst, NJ
Contact:

Post by Uncle Screwtape » Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:42 pm

I say go for it. There seems to be more of a gain than a loss.
Your... affectionate uncle,
-Screwtape

Jazzpunk
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:48 pm

Post by Jazzpunk » Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:58 pm

Wow, lots of great feedback. Thanks guys!

I really do like having that second triangle wave and for my purposes, I think it may be a mistake to give it up. Shame the sine wave can't be added without taking something away.

Jazzpunk
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:48 pm

Post by Jazzpunk » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:02 pm

Carey M wrote:And congrats on your Omega, Jazzpunk! I've lusted after an Omega for some time now, so I'm extremely envious.
Thanks Carey! I too had been lusting after one for years. It is everything I had hoped it would be. :D

User avatar
xpander
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1541
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:15 am
Gear: UltraProteus, Xpander, 200e, Minimoogs, Radias, Prophet VS, PolyEvolver, Arp 2600
Location: los gatos, california
Contact:

Post by xpander » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:41 am

adding another waveform... now that's a mod worth doing!

Post Reply