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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:48 pm
by pricklyrobot
Huppo wrote:
pricklyrobot wrote:I was thinking of getting one of these at some point to go with my Casio CZ-1000. I haven't really looking into it too deeply yet. Anyone know if it will or won't work with the CZ's?
It won't work. The CZ series doesn't respond in real time to tweaks from external controllers, either. Even if you use a software editor that "speaks" to the CZ series, you have to re-up the patch you're tweaking to the synth to hear any changes you've made.
Damn, I guess I'll just have to take the CZ-1000 apart and try to clean the two membrane switches that only like to work sporadically, oh well.

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:29 pm
by Huppo
Arddhu wrote:A more concise and coherent way of saying what I was trying to say before. :wink:
Sorry about that! I didn't even see your post on it or I wouldn't have rephrased without referencing you. Disrespectful and bad form, as well.

Plus, you should see what happens when I try and answer things clearly in Danish or whatever language you speak natively. :shock:

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:06 am
by Arddhu
Well Danish or Australian tend be fairly similar in how far removed from English they can often be. :D No worries!

Back on the CZ thing; you can still edit it all from the computer pretty easily. It's just annoying that you have to hit the "re-send" type button every time you make a change to a patch to hear it's effect.
So if you're totally stuck due to dodgy buttons, there is a solution!


Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:22 am
by Huppo
Arddhu wrote:So if you're totally stuck due to dodgy buttons, there is a solution!
Very true.

I've owned everything in the CZ series except the CZ-1 over the course of 20 something years and I believe I tried every editor solution available at the time. A clunky editor like that can def save you from bad buttons, but it makes patch editing only marginally easier than doing it thru the front panel unless you have a great mental picture of the synth structure and use the comp editor as a convenience

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:42 am
by pricklyrobot
The buttons aren't too bad yet, it's only one or two of them, and I can usually get them to work by pushing on them repeatedly. I'm just anticipating them getting worse over time.

Right now the CZ's main problem is its loose power jack that causes the power cord to fall out pretty regularly. Guess I'll just spend the $50 for six rechargeable D-cells one of these days. That'll solve the no-patch-memory-after-power-down thing too, since the Casio RAM cartridges seem to sell for ridiculous money ($80-something for an RA-3 on Ebay the other day).

This super-bargain synth gets more expensive all the time.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:46 am
by Arddhu
Funny. I've been having issues with my CZ recently too. The program up and down buttons were becoming a real pain to use. At the moment it's in the electrical bloke's store getting fixed but the only place that makes replacement "switches" is Roland and they have to be imported from Japan. Likely to be quite expensive once it's fixed.

But the sound is what makes up for it! Has to be the most character-ridden digital synth I've ever heard.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:32 am
by rpcfender
Hi Guys ,
new to this forum, but I would like to say that the BCR and the BCF CAN put out variable MIDI messages and that includes sysex.
I have witten presets for my BCR200 for the FantomX (hardly vintage, sorry) , my Korg DW 6000, Roland XV-3080 and EMU Morpheus all using varying sysex strings and you can include checksums in the sysex.

The BCR can send out multiple MIDI messages as well. Anything up to 125 bytes of MIDI.

What you can't do is program this from the front panel.
You will need an editor like BC-convert (Win & Mac) or the "BCn2000 Script Editor" (Win or Mac with a Win emulator)
Join up and look in the files section where you can find both of them.
(I programmed the second one so I have to take the blame for that editor)

These controllers are cheap and really can do so much more than Behringer will say. Who knows why they want to keep it a secret.

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:52 am
by Sealed
Thank you very very much for the resource.
I once asked Behringer and they said BCR2000 can only send CC/NRPN, and does not support proper SysEx.
I'm very glad to know about the script editor, and that's what I expected when I got the BCR.

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:29 pm
by rpcfender
We have started to build up a few presets for real time editing of hardware synths.
If you manage to get one going it would be great to if you could store a copy there.
Any questions about BC unit/software I'd be happy to try and help.

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:38 am
by hollandturbine
What I have done is use some Cubase device panels to program the BCR2000 using the learn function on it, (there must be some way to dump more complex sysex data straight to it though) and this got me to thinking about other editors for synths too, instead of sending the data from the editor to the synth, what if we capture that data from the editor and use it to program other devices/programs for editing our synths.

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:39 pm
by rpcfender
The BCR and BCF200 only 'learn' sysex when it it has a fixed value.
CC 07 value 100 for instance and pressing the button just outputs that message.
$B0 $07 $64
$B0 $07 $64
$B0 $07 $64
$B0 $07 $64
$B0 $07 $64
So the front panel 'learn' is fairly limited. It is the only way to send sysex that Behringer will talk about.

But... you can program up to 125 bytes of midi output per control (including multiple MIDI messages eg you could use 1 encoder to control the volume on half a dozen different MIDI channels - group fader)

The Midi message can include the 7bit values of the control (the position of the encoders or faders and on/off state of the buttons)
14 bit numbers are also possible as well as various bits of the bytes.

You can adjust the encoder so it jumps values when you turn it quickly and if you turn it slowly it will output single steps of data. There are 4 resolution to velocity settings per controller.

All this is possible, BUT not from the front panel.

You need to use and editor and (currently) by writing a script and sending this as sysex from the editor or saving it and sending it with you sequencer.
So as far as getting the unit to learn the sysex from an existing editor I don't think it is possible.
You can of course capture the sysex using MidiOx and use it to prepare the script to send to the BCR/BCF