Korg MS-20 or EML ElectroComp 101?

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drummy
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Korg MS-20 or EML ElectroComp 101?

Post by drummy » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:05 am

Now I'm deciding between the MS-20 and an EML ElectroComp 101...
Last edited by drummy on Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by gfriden » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:37 pm

The Korg MS-10 and MS-20 are both known for their fat and dirty filters. Neither the Odyssey nor the Cat will be able to replace that aspect of your MS-20, that's for sure. There is an ongoing debate as to whether the Cat is very closely related to the Odyssey sound and functionwise. Of course, Cat afficianodos will tell you that comparing the two its a matter of apples and oranges. Having never played a Cat, I can not tell you if this is really the case, but having listened to the sound clips on this site I would have to say that my Odyssey can do better than that:

http://www.octavecat.homestead.com/

Sure, there are some differences between what an Oddy and a Cat can do, but I'd say there's a good reason why these synths are always compared, even by those who prefer the Cat. And while I'm sure the Cat is a hidden gem, I think the popularity of the Oddy over the Cat is more than just hype. But that's just my opinion though, you'd better find out for yourself. Regardless of how you feel about the ARP/Cat issue in the end, I'd say keep your MS-20 and buy whichever you prefer of the other two.
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Post by drummy » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:00 pm

gfriden wrote:The Korg MS-10 and MS-20 are both known for their fat and dirty filters. Neither the Odyssey nor the Cat will be able to replace that aspect of your MS-20, that's for sure. There is an ongoing debate as to whether the Cat is very closely related to the Odyssey sound and functionwise. Of course, Cat afficianodos will tell you that comparing the two its a matter of apples and oranges. Having never played a Cat, I can not tell you if this is really the case, but having listened to the sound clips on this site I would have to say that my Odyssey can do better than that:

http://www.octavecat.homestead.com/

Sure, there are some differences between what an Oddy and a Cat can do, but I'd say there's a good reason why these synths are always compared, even by those who prefer the Cat. And while I'm sure the Cat is a hidden gem, I think the popularity of the Oddy over the Cat is more than just hype. But that's just my opinion though, you'd better find out for yourself. Regardless of how you feel about the ARP/Cat issue in the end, I'd say keep your MS-20 and buy whichever you prefer of the other two.
Thanks, I think I will keep the MS-20 then. As for now, I am leaning towards the ARP, although the reliability issues I have heard about the Odysseys makes me a bit wary...

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Post by gfriden » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:29 pm

drummy wrote: Thanks, I think I will keep the MS-20 then. As for now, I am leaning towards the ARP, although the reliability issues I have heard about the Odysseys makes me a bit wary...
Reliability issues? What reliability issues ? :shock: Never heard of any myself. :? Surely nothing worse than any other piece of vintege gear?
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Post by V301H » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:32 pm

Definitely keep the MS20. That will be a big part of your retirement nest egg. I would choose the Odyssey over the Cat, especially the earlier white-face model. I found the Cat to be a clunky poor-man's copy of the Odyssey and that's when they were brand new. The white-face Odysseys apparently have better filters than the later models. I had a white-face back in the day and loved it. It had a warmer, more Moog-like sound than the thinner plastic sounding black-face models which came later. I currently have an MS20 which has it's good points, but overall the Odyssey is a much more elegant machine with some important basic sound programming functions like oscillator-sync, pulse-width modulation, and ring modulator not found on the MS20. The Odyssey's sample-and-hold function blows away the MS20 and you don't have to use patch cords to implement it.

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Post by drummy » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:36 pm

Alright thanks. So V301H, you are suggesting I keep the MS-20 and get the Odyssey? Now I'm REALLY leaning towards the Odyssey and MS-20 combo. Anyone ever plug the Odyssey's out to the ESP of the Korg MS-20 to get some fat mega monosynth or something?

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Post by gfriden » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:01 pm

V301H wrote:Definitely keep the MS20. That will be a big part of your retirement nest egg. I would choose the Odyssey over the Cat, especially the earlier white-face model. I found the Cat to be a clunky poor-man's copy of the Odyssey and that's when they were brand new. The white-face Odysseys apparently have better filters than the later models. I had a white-face back in the day and loved it. It had a warmer, more Moog-like sound than the thinner plastic sounding black-face models which came later. I currently have an MS20 which has it's good points, but overall the Odyssey is a much more elegant machine with some important basic sound programming functions like oscillator-sync, pulse-width modulation, and ring modulator not found on the MS20. The Odyssey's sample-and-hold function blows away the MS20 and you don't have to use patch cords to implement it.
This is an odd piece of information. Now, I've never actually played a white-face Oddy, and while most people who have agree that this model has the best, distinctly 'ARP' sound of the many versions, most also agree that the earlier black-face models by far have the fattest sound of them all. This is because of the Moog type ladder filter they used for a while but had to discontinnue when Moog threatened to take legal action. Re. the Octave Cat: Its always nice to hear from people who can verify one's suspicions. Of course the Cat will have its defenders, but I'd say that the reputations of most synths are deserved, and 'a clunky poor-man's copy of the Odyssey' is just about the impression I got from the sound clips I've heard so far.
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Post by xpander » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:02 pm

don't believe these fools, i want you to sell me your MS-20. :D

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Post by Entropy Farmer » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:17 pm

V301H wrote:The white-face Odysseys apparently have better filters than the later models. I had a white-face back in the day and loved it. It had a warmer, more Moog-like sound than the thinner plastic sounding black-face models which came later.
It doesn't have a "better" filter, it has a completely different one. The 1st rev white face ones have a 2-pole filter, while the later ones have the Moog ladder or the 4075 (both 4-pole). I really like that "thin plastic" 4075, and the Moog ladder is the fattest of the three.

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Post by gfriden » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:00 pm

Entropy Farmer wrote: It doesn't have a "better" filter, it has a completely different one. The 1st rev white face ones have a 2-pole filter, while the later ones have the Moog ladder or the 4075 (both 4-pole). I really like that "thin plastic" 4075, and the Moog ladder is the fattest of the three.
Precisely what I've heard. I have a late black-face version with PPC and really like the sound of its filter. I think that's a 4075 also. Although I have more or less decided to get one each of the Odyssey modles anyway (when I get filthy rich, that is) so I guess I'll be able to find out for myself eventually. BTW, I really enjoyed your tunes! Did you use an Odyssey on any of them? 8)
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Post by hfinn » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:55 am

My MK1's 4023 filter is one of the nicest I have ever had. And thats a lot.

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Post by gfriden » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:24 am

hfinn wrote:My MK1's 4023 filter is one of the nicest I have ever had. And thats a lot.
You said this on a previous thread on the white-face, but didn't quite specify what's so good about it. Could you compare it to the MKII and MKIII filters for instance? (I know you said you've owned one of each). By the way, the Oddy vs. the Cat... have you any comments on that? (Hey, that rhymed!)
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Post by Micke » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:12 pm

Hey gfriden, here's some details on the 4023 filter:

"The original 4023 filter is a 2-pole (12dB/oct) OTA-based biquad design
somewhat similar to the Oberheim SEM/OB-X filter. This filter has a
very smooth behaviour, and unlike most 4-pole filters, does not attenuate
the low end with increased resonance settings. Good for bass and bright
lead sounds. A bit noisy, though."


Not only does the mk I feature a different type of filter, the oscillator boards and power supply are also different compared to those used in (most ) mk II's and mk III's.
The newer oscillator/S&H/LFO board (known as the B-II board) are more stable than the the osc boards used in the mk I and some early mk II's.
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Post by drummy » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:31 pm

Were the white-faced versions only available with the 4023 filter, or did any make it with the 4035 filter or another kind of filter? Because I heard the Odysseys with the 4023 filter had their parts encased in resin, and that would be difficult to maintain, and I would probably have to pay extra if I need to have it serviced...

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Post by gfriden » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:06 pm

Thanks for the info Micke! drummy, you might want to ask more specific questions about the Oddy at this forum:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/odysseypatch/

Good Luck!
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