Any NAMM synth or drum machine rumors out there?

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Post by crystalmsc » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:56 pm

supermel74 wrote:Looks interesting http://www.gearwire.com/yamaha-kxseries.html
What more interesting about it is the Xfactor DVD bundle. For $399 MSRP (KX25), it almost worth the DVD alone. Specially since it include the Yamaha S90ES piano sample (S700) and Arturia Analog Factory.
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Post by Jack Spider » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm

Mr. Haynes - you'll see a lot of people offering opinions on instruments they haven't yet played on here. I wouldn't take any of it to heart. :wink:
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Post by seamonkey » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:18 pm

synapsecollapse wrote:
hageir wrote:
HHaynes wrote: We'll see when the Origin hits the streets.
Yeah..
I guess we'll see..


When it hits the pavement, face down, and actual POOP leaks out of it!
WTF?

i was not a fan of what i heard from the demo product video on sonic state from NAMM this year, but the guy was more about buzz words and some crappy delay/verb effect that was on everything he played than the modular concept. i dont see how anyone can know if it is going to be decent, nevermind leak actual poop.
I have to agree the demo video was awful.
I think you are going to see more and more software integrated into hardware in the future.
I think the fact John Bowen is doing it with the Solaris is even more exciting.

I think the Origin is way overpriced at $3499MSRP(if that's the final number).

$Solaris..$3499 or Origin $3499?? no brainer as far as I'm concerned.
:wink:
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Post by killedaway » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:23 am

HHaynes wrote: "No fair"? You've got to be joking. First of all, I don't work for them - although I do help them with minor stuff like tweaking the translation of some of their docs, I'm nowhere near being an employee. The only thing you could rightfully accuse me of is being more aware of the details than the average joe. Anybody at the NAMM show could have asked any *real* Arturia employee about it and would have gotten the same information.
that's awesome, 'cause i was completely kidding! i just thought your reply sounded like an ad. although i now officially dub myself the "champion of guessing that someone sort of works for a certain company and they actually sort of do".

for the record, i have no idea what you guys are talking about, honestly.
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Post by westforwishing9 » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:21 am

HHaynes wrote: Bear in mind, the MSRP of the Origin is $2999US, with the keyboard unit being $3499US.
Really? When I talked to one of the reps at namm he told me it would be 3999 and like 4999 for the keyboard.

Its a cool unit. Sounded good. But since they are scaling back and what they will lease it with I wont be interested in it till a price drop and more shits added.

Also the MAX 32 note polyphony is such a turn off to me.

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Post by seamonkey » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:41 am

HHaynes wrote:
seamonkey wrote:$Solaris..$3499 or Origin $3499?? no brainer as far as I'm concerned.
:wink:
Says the guy who bought a Voyager...

:roll:

I think the Solaris and Origin would (and should) appeal to different types of synthesists. I'd like to have both.

:D

Bear in mind, the MSRP of the Origin is $2999US, with the keyboard unit being $3499US.
You don't really want to start World War 3 with a discussion whether the Voyager is overpriced do you?? :lol:

In all fairness none of the videos demonstrating new products actually demoed the sounds very much, even Eric over at Spectrasonics played very little of Omnisphere in the video I saw.

I visited the Origin link you provided and it was much more informative.
It looks like quite a monster. I still think your average joe is not going to pop $3500 for it. I realize to combine the software/hardware technology is not inexpensive but when I see the entire stable of Arturia synths(less Galaxy) being offered in a package for $499, it's hard to justify the keyboard and fliptop screen for $3000.
I have focused my comments on the keyboard because a)that was the NAMM video b)I love keyboards. :D
I think the desktop version may be more popular for the price.

Arturia makes terrific products. I think their R&D of VSTi technology has pushed the entire market into developing high quality emulations of vintage analog instruments. I still have my Steinberg Model E, just think how far we've come.

I wish them all the success in the world with this new venture because if developers just play it safe we all lose.
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Post by seamonkey » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:19 pm

HHaynes wrote:
seamonkey wrote:You don't really want to start World War 3 with a discussion whether the Voyager is overpriced do you?? :lol:
Why not? I was in the room and Bob Moog and Rudi Linhard (who wrote the firmware for the Voyager) first discussed it back in the early-mid-90s... Now mind you, I don't disagree with its pricing - I simply think that anyone throwing stones at the pricing for Origin would be on firmer ground if they *didn't* have a Voyager listed in their sig line.
seamonkey wrote:I visited the Origin link you provided and it was much more informative.
It looks like quite a monster. I still think your average joe is not going to pop $3500 for it. I realize to combine the software/hardware technology is not inexpensive but when I see the entire stable of Arturia synths(less Galaxy) being offered in a package for $499, it's hard to justify the keyboard and fliptop screen for $3000.
Actually, it's *not* difficult to justify, when you look at the *total* cost of hardware, the control you get through that interface that you can't get from any computer-based setup without buying a separate MIDI control panel/interface, plus the kind of horsepower that only a *pair* of TigerSHARC processors can provide, it's perfectly justifiable. When you do a TCO of a computer, screen, MIDI and audio interface, etc, etc, etc, it all adds up. Even when you "roll your own" PC DAWs like I do (though I just bought a Q6600-based Acer machine off the shelf for $700) you still get buried when you nickel and dime all of the anciliary factors into the equation. (particularly when you look at multiple I/O with the quality of D/A A/D convertors and pre-amps which you only find on higher-end audio interfaces that they put into the Origin).

Show me someone that can run 32 voices of free-running virtual analog at 96K with tight realtime latency through a quality audio interface and I'll show you someone that's dropped $3K for the whole kit. Guaranteed. Every time.

And beside that - the prices that people are bandying about strike me as a bit of a "straw man" tactic. I just got an email from the CEO of Arturia that not only busted the $3K-$4K claim (see earlier in this thread) as bogus, they're actually reducing their MSRPs for both the desktop unit and the keyboard compared to their originally announced prices.
From: Frederic Brun
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:48 AM
To: Houston Haynes
Subject: Re: Origin/Origin Keyboard pricing

The Desktop should be $2499 MSRP.
The keyboard should be $2999 MSRP.

This is official and you can use that.


Frederic
And of course, you can factor in whatever favorite percentage reduction you like to guess what the OTD price will be from your favorite MI store. My take on it is that they saw a lot more interest/orders at the NAMM show and so felt confident that the manufacturing volume will be enough that they can make it through some breakpoint that will let them produce them at a lower per-unit cost. I did quite a bit of that kind of analysis when I worked for Bob Moog, and let's face it - from a manufacturing perspective synthesizers are a boutique business. And component-level breakpoints in the BOM matter *a lot*, particularly with big-ticket items such as LCD displays and beefy DSP processors. If we were talking about microwave ovens or cell phones it would be a different story. Regardless, I think this disarms a lot of people that were sour-graping their way through grousing about the price. You know - if you don't like the price, stick with their plugins - it's a self-resolving equation, the best kind of math.

;)

Anyway, I think before everyone gets too riled up about *this* or *that* price, and should take a deep breath and consider *all* the factors *as they are* instead of how you wish they would be. On balance, I think the Origin is the most compelling new synth out there. Then again, it's right in my wheel-house (and I know a lot of stuff about it's inner workings since I've been proof-reading the English translation of the manual). All of the new "digital synth" stuff like sampling, granular, physical modeling I still like to do in the box (on my DAW). So the other gee-whiz machines that people are lionizing today doesn't really interest me that much.

Your mileage may vary - just be sure your facts are straight before you hit the road.

8)
I will keep this cordial because we are adults but I hardly think my comment about the $3500 price point for the keyboard version was "throwing stones" because I decided to pay under 3 grand for a classic synthesizer.

Your posting of the email which shows a reduction in the price proves my point as far as I'm concerned. Arturia obviously feels the same way.

That being said I will be upfront and let you know I preordered a Solaris but only at the preorder price of $2800, if it were the $3499 price for the second run of 50-100 I would not have been able to do it.

Pricing is often a psychological battle between manufacturer and consumer.
My personal belief was consumers would've had a hard time breaking through the plus $3000 priceline in their heads. I never meant to imply the Origin wasn't worth it.
Again, I think Arturia realized this as well by reducing the price realizing more units sold at a lower price =greater sales versus less units sold at a higher price.

I certainly hope your comment about "getting your facts straight" was a general comment about comments made in this thread and not necessarily in reference to anything I've said.

I've enjoyed reading some of your insights regarding this matter, let's shake hands, agree to disagree and go have some fun making strange noises. :)
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Post by seamonkey » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:38 pm

HHaynes wrote:
seamonkey wrote:I certainly hope your comment about "getting your facts straight" was a general comment about comments made in this thread and not necessarily in reference to anything I've said.
It was an absolutely generalized comment and not pointed to anyone in particular. I was hoping that the sprinkling of smileys would have helped smooth over any misinterpretation.

:D

As far as your choice to put your money into Solaris, I think you should do whatever makes you happy. However, I just read in their forums that they switched DSP programmers just a few months ago (and Dave said in the NAMM interview on Sonic State that they essentially had to start over again) and also read a post where they're stated that they're re-evaluating their choice in DSP cores. That's not the kind of thing that inspires confidence that you're going to see a product any time soon.

Bear in mind, I started working for Bob Moog building theremins back when he had a long list of "pre-orders" and hadn't delivered a unit for months (and in some cases, years) after the originally promised date. When I see what Dave Bowen is going through, I cringe since it reminds me of the time I worked for Bob.

You can look at the pricing changes and think what you want, but I think it was smart for Arturia to be conservative and leave room for a downward adjustment 'at volume' then to over-estimate their sell-through and mis(under)price their product and end up going out of business. How many synth manufacturers have we seen do that? To a certain degree, Solaris is a by-product of that exact cycle - I hope Dave manages to position his product so that he can stay afloat and continue to support the platform. For my money, I have a higher trust in Arturia's technology and business model.

Again - your mileage may vary.
As far as John having to change programmers here is the information taken from John's site:
News: Klaus Piehl joins Solaris development team
October 16, 2007: Klaus Piehl, known for his brilliant DSP coding while at Creamware (Minimax, Pro One, Profit/Pro-12, and most every other Scope library module!), has taken over as lead DSP engineer for the Solaris project. Sonic Core and John Bowen Synth Designs are extremely excited to have such a talented and knowledgeable DSP programmer on the team!

And yes, the change in DSP programmers has set the release date back but these things happen and I'm quite confident Klaus is a more than adequate replacement.
In my opinion John is not only a brilliant designer but a perfectionist as well, he will not release an unfinished product and if that means having the release date moved back than I'm more than willing to wait.
Arturia has also had to change their release date since first showing the Origin at last winter's NAMM, these things happen.

Yes my money is on the Solaris but it's by choice because the features and sound creation capabilities are what I'm looking for.
John's reputation and his ability to think outside the box to bring new and innovative means for musicians to express themselves gives me all the confidence I need to know this is a good purchase for me.

In closing we all know Bob Moog was not a businessman, he was an inventor, inventors can't be bothered with accountants or marketing guys, it wasn't until he had people around him who knew how to bring Moog into the 21st century his company became successful.
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Post by tallowwaters » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:56 pm

yawn.

let me know when the p***s match is over and we can actually talk about some of the gear at namm again.
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Post by hageir » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:05 pm

tallowwaters wrote:yawn.

let me know when the p***s match is over and we can actually talk about some of the gear at namm again.
:lol:
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Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:08 pm

But Tallow, he knew Bob Moog! :shock:

Where does the line form to lick his balls? :lol:

HHaynes, a tip: I think you need to reassess you sense of self importance. You've done nothing but tell everyone how great you are and how many companies you've worked for since you came on this forum. That's not what the forum is about. Cool it and everyone will get along, eh? :thumbleft:
Last edited by Stab Frenzy on Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by seamonkey » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:22 pm

tallowwaters wrote:yawn.

let me know when the p***s match is over and we can actually talk about some of the gear at namm again.
I agree, putting my p***s back in it's holster until the weekend when I can put it to much better use. :lol:
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Post by Jack Spider » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:26 pm

Either carry this on via PM or the thread gets locked.
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Post by xibalba » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:52 pm

Has anyone had hands on with this item. I posted a little blurb from what i read in the latest edt of futuremusic, but i was wondering if anyone has one or has heard or used it?

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Post by tallowwaters » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:02 am

HHaynes wrote:
tallowwaters wrote:yawn.

let me know when the p***s match is over and we can actually talk about some of the gear at namm again.
Yeah - you guys go ahead and get all wet-and-sloppy over vaporware based on 5-year-old re-packaged DSP from a string of failed products and I'll be in the studio making music with something classically new, musically inspiring, that sounds amazing and most importantly, is *real*.

Peace out, boys.

:roll:
suit yourself.
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