Sample & Hold = Boring?

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Post by Syn303 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:27 pm

manticore101 wrote:You must be thinking of the live version of "Aquatrakus from the welcome back my friends" live album. (if you're not talking about any bootleg recording I am not aware of) The "triple Live" was recorded (at Anaheim) and released in 1974. BSS was recorded and released in 1973.

See this great link for info regarding BSS and the live album as well as lot of info about EMO's gear. Pictures of Moog protoypes Lyra and Apollo.
http://www.brain-salad-surgery.de/
Emerson also used the S&H effect on the B-side track of the Jerusalem single at the end with the exceedingly long title "When the apple blossoms bloom in the windmills of your mind i'll be your valentine"
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Post by cornutt » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:46 pm

The MOTM-101 S&H has a feature where you can have it track the input when the trigger signal is low, and only hold when the trigger is high. So what you do is feed a sawtooth or triangle to the sample input, feed a PWM'ed pulse to the trigger input, run the S&H output through a lag, and use that to drive a VCO. I'll prepare an example tonight if I have time.
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Post by THM » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:56 pm

I like using S&H in my modular system.
E.g. synhronized to my sequencer for controlling amount of filter frequency or filter resonance - which makes "live" my sequences.
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Post by michael stein » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:34 pm

You can run the S&H output into a quantizer > VCO's. This could create some melodic phrases in a specific key. Now you dont have to write music anymore:)

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Post by Slickie » Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:29 pm

meatballfulton wrote: Being able to route things other than noise into the S&H, being able to route the output as audio (like on a modular) or having multiple triggering options makes it a lot more useful.
a true S&H with I/O capable of taking multiple signals is where it shines really...on a modular...

its not any more "boring" than a low pass filter, ring mod etc....its just a matter of how creative you are...but if its pre patched then yes I imagine its limited in its use.

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Post by Bitexion » Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:44 pm

On pre-VA keyboard synths, usually you get to mod filter cutoff or oscillator pitch and that's it.

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Post by cornutt » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:19 pm

michael stein wrote:You can run the S&H output into a quantizer > VCO's. This could create some melodic phrases in a specific key. Now you dont have to write music anymore:)
I've done that before with software: write code that plays notes randomly selected from a particular key or scale. I'm not quite sure how to describe the results: it definitely has the feel of a piece of music in a particular key, but it doesn't quite come across as being a melody per se.
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Post by Yoozer » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:31 pm

Slickie wrote:its not any more "boring" than a low pass filter, ring mod etc....its just a matter of how creative you are...but if its pre patched then yes I imagine its limited in its use.
Why this wasn't the first answer, I don't know.
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Post by sequence » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:49 pm

...as boring as one wishes to make it, I suppose
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Re: Sample & Hold = Boring?

Post by Micke » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:49 pm

manticore101 wrote:
Original use of S&H: Keith emersons use of S&H from the custom Moog modular in the transition between 1. impression and 2. impression of Karn evil 9. I cannot recall to have heard this effect pre 1973.

My onest opion is that S&H is as important for special effects as the glide/ portamento effect or selfoscillating filters. The lack of portamento in for example the Juno-60 is a bit of a downer on a otherwise fine synthesizer.

Beaver & Krause used the S&H effect on both "Nonesuch Guide To Electronic Music" and "Ragnarök", which were recorded in 1967 and 1968 respectively.
Incidentally, these two albums --entirely done on an early 1967 Moog modular--may be the the very first ones to make use the Moog sequencer.

The model 960 sequencer was afaik not available until late '68 or early '69, however I was told by Krause that they often got beta-test technologies from Bob including early versions of the 960.
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Post by ReaPeR » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:58 pm

Bitexion wrote:If you have the possibility to change the source then it's great.
Exchange the noise with a sawtooth for instance, and mod an oscillator, and you get a stepped arpeggio following the sawtooth shape. It still samples the sawtooth at the speed you decide, so you get a "staircase" shape that modulates the oscillator instead of "computer bleeps".
I guess you can only do that with modulars, though.
Alesis Fusion has true S&H too.


Anyway i love S&H on the panning of the HH (or blips /zaps)

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Post by carbon111 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:32 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:I, like Bitexion, also like what it does when you use something other than noise as an input, and they varying that input and the S&H amount.
Couldn't agree more. Everybody seems to think S/H is only for sampling noise and routing it to a filter - thats boring.

Sample a high frequency (audio rate) sawtooth or triangle for an interesting modulation source...route it to pulse-width or something interesting.
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Post by mr_m0nks » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:33 am

using it to S&H a guitar running into a filter gets my vote too

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Post by nitkov » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:41 am

i like to set S&H to 'retrigger' on each note, and then slow it down to zero speed. that way, each note is provided a different 'permanent' value which i usually direct to pitch of the oscillator which is synched to another osc [each note gets different waveform], or to stereo pan position, like ReaPeR did with HHs [also great for fast tiny glassy sequences, sounding like stardust / magic powder, sparkling all around]

although i'm not a great fan of classic fast s&h->pitch, i'm a sucker for john foxx's 'he's a liquid' electronic bubbles!
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Post by premieklovn » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:05 am

I guess I was mainly talking about the prepatched version of S&H. Like the one on the Moog Rogue or Yamaha CS15. Never tried a modular one.

There's one typical S&H-sound I do like and thats the scary monster bass sound in Zelda Twilight Princess. It's basicly a deep single osc being modulated by an S&H-LFO. Sounds kind of like -this-

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