T Dream- Logos: guess the synths

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T Dream- Logos: guess the synths

Post by madtheory » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:42 pm

Liking this album a lot at the mo. Some great sounds. I guess that flute that crops up a lot is a Minimoog. And the bit with the sampler where it sounds like they're saying "Edgar!"- that transposed chord sound is a P5 I'm guessing. Lots of gritty fliterless PPG Wave computer on there also, and typical Wave 2.3 sounds.

I've come across references to the sequencers they used, quite similar in capability to the Oberhiem Cyclone.

Any other guesses?

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Post by madtheory » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:00 pm

And does anyone have any pictures of the setup used for this tour?

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Post by Syn303 » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:10 pm

Tangerine Dream - Logos - Live At The Dominion Theatre London 1982

Edgar Froese:
Custom Sequencer System built by helmut groethe
Roland Jupiter-8
PPG Wave 2 or 2.2 ?
Moog - Minimoog

Chris Franke:
Moog Minimoog
Custom Built Modular System (various modules, drum modules, EEH & Moog sequencers)
Elka Rhapsody 610
Prophet ????
Arp Odyssey MkIII or possibly either an OB-1 or SCi Pro-one ?

Johannes Schmoelling:
Custom Sequencer System built by Helmut Groethe
Roland Jupiter-8
Oberheim OB-X

Also two drum machines on this album, possibly a TR-808 is one of them, the other not sure ?

The sample you hear is not saying "Edgar!" it's saying "Wake Up!" it comes from a custom-built Publison sampler.
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Post by Micke » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:38 pm

Well, from the live photos I've seen from the fall 1982 tour (which included the "Logos" concert) they appear to have been using the following setup:

Chris Franke:

-Custom modular synthesizer (comprising of about 50% Moog and 50%
Projekt Electronic):
Moog Oscx2/R.M./VCF/VCAs
Projekt Elektronik VcEnvx2 & Proj. Elek. 2VCO/W.Noise/R.M./Waves (for Drums)
Digital sequencer & trigger selector
Programmer for above (SCI model 700 programmer)
Synth sound bank (for above)
Moog 960 sequential controller x2
Projekt elektronic sequence controller x2
Moog 3-band parametric
Moog 12 stage phaser
Moog 920 programmer
Moog 16-channel vocoder
Rhythm robot sequencer
E-mu Audity voice card
12 analogue drum sounds
Drum envelope unit
Drum EPROM sampled sounds
and more...

- Prophet 5 (rev 2) (at the time Franke's favorite analog polysynth)
- Minimoog
- Arp Odyssey mk III
- Elka Rhapsody 610 (yes, he still used this oldie by this time!)

Edgar Froese:

Roland Jupiter 8
PPG Wave 2
Minimoog
custom sequencer (by Helmuth Grothe)

Christopher Schmoelling:

Oberheim OB-X (this was actually Froese's synth and it was part of his stage rig during the '80 and early '81 tours)
Roland Jupiter 8 (Schmoelling's favorite analog polysynth at the time, he told me so himself recently)
custom sequencer (like Edgar's)


Note that Franke, Froese and Schmoelling frequently made changes to their stage setups, this often happened from one concert/tour to another.

Image


Image
Franke with his Moog/Projekt elektronik modular tower, Minimoog, Odyssey III, Rhapsody 610 and Prophet 5 rev 2 (underneath the Elka).
This shot is from the fall '81 tour but I know that he used pretty much the same rig during the '82 tour.


Image
Another view of Franke's setup (again from the fall '81 tour)


Image
Froese with a Jup 8, PPG wave 2 and the big custom sequencer.


Image
And finally a shot of Schmoelling with OB-X and Jup 8 (this is from a concert back in Dec 1981).
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Post by Carey M » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:43 pm

Amazing photos, Micke!

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Post by Solderman » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:52 am

Great info. I kinda figured the pads were JP8's and all those whacky sound effects were PPG. My favorites by them atm are White Eagle and Exit, so this would have been much of that same setup. Maybe no Roland stuff on Exit.

It still blows my mind they could pull off some of those sequencing performances live. I can't hardly get the mix right on five analog synths, let alone a setup that big. I read somewhere they were very meticulous about their mix, both live and in the studio.
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Post by madtheory » Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:43 pm

Syn303 wrote: The sample you hear is not saying "Edgar!" it's saying "Wake Up!" it comes from a custom-built Publison sampler.
I've read interviews with Froese where they've said it's "Edgar" and laughed about it, and numerous online reviews which say it's "wake up". It's not very clear, but it's a cool sound.

Great pics Micke, thanks!

Is the Poland album as good as Logos?

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Post by freq » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:20 pm

Helmut Groethe? see a doctor. :D

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Post by BritSynths » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:34 pm

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Post by THM » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:44 pm

The downtempo solo sound in Logos Part 1 (after ± 7 minutes), is that a Minimoog ?
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Post by intercorni » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:18 pm

Edgar play the PPG Wave 2, Minimoog and Jupiter8:

Image
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Post by Micke » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:48 pm

I think this vintage footage is from a concert at Munich Cirkuskrone, 9th of Dec 1981.

Franke and Schmoelling appear to have been using the same stage setups for this concert as they did a year later on the 'Logos' tour (see pics above). Froese's setup is slightly different though because here he's still using the PPG wavecomputer 360 (underneath the Wave 2), the Korg PE-2000 poly-ensemble and the ARP Pro/DGX.

This was probably the last concert where he used those three synths on stage because live pics from the spring '82 (in Australia) tour show him with the Minimoog, PPG Wave 2, the then-new Jup 8 and the Helmut Groethe custom sequencer, ie the same setup he used on the 'Logos' tour.

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Post by THM » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:51 am

So what about that lead sound after ± 7 minutes ? Minimoog ?
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Post by tim gueguen » Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:10 pm

Sure sounds like it. Compare it to Geddy Lee's Minimoog leads on Rush's "Subdivisions" and "Countdown" from Signals. The timbres aren't identical, but to my ear they sound like they come from the same instrument.
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Post by shaft9000 » Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:34 pm

madtheory wrote: Is the Poland album as good as Logos?
I say even better, as it is a double album of visionary, thoroughly high quality music. Perhaps their best live release of all... if I had to choose.

not to nitpick, but some of the stuff on Logos sounds just a touch gimmicky to me (the vocal sample "Edgar"/"Wake Up" for one), and the intro of Poland just kills me every time!!
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