The Vintage-classics of the future - What synths and Why?

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Syn303
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Post by Syn303 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:16 pm

I should point out in this thread that you all go on about which synths will become classics in 20-30 years time... the question is will any of you be around in that time - think about it!
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Post by Johnny Lenin » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:34 pm

CS_TBL wrote:When virtual modeling also makes authentic models of analogue synths, of which no one can say there's a difference, then there's little to no value of any synth made sofar, and thus there wouldn't be 'vintage' synths in the future, unless you like having a museum of old stuff.
If it was just about the sound, then I think you'd be right, but it's more than that. I mean, one reason why vintage instruments -- in fact, any object -- have value also has a lot to do with what can only be called "authenticity." It's not the authentic sound, but the authentic instrument that matters.

I'm reminded of historically informed performance practice (HIP) and baroque and classical music. Joshua Rifkin and Christopher Hogwood can research the performance practices of the 18th century all they want -- and they do very good scholarship -- but that doesn't mean HIP performances are anything more than conjecture. And since the production practices and materials of the 18th century are no longer available, modern copies of early instruments can never be more than approximations.

Yet, certainly when HIP was called "authentic performance," it had a certain mystique, even when some of these performances were pretty piss poor. There was a sense that the performer was challenging the original INTENT of the composer -- that hearing a performance of the Art of Fugue "as Bach would have heard it" [forgetting that he died while composing it] was more authentic and thus more authoritative than Glenn Gould's studio wizardry on a modern piano.

There will always be a mystique and a market for authentic instruments from the past, and that doesn't always have anything to do with how they sound.

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Post by Solderman » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:05 pm

I hate to stray off into "what will be" too much, but I think it always relates to common values of using old technology. After all, we still use certain basic tools because you cannot improve on them without either complicating the process or altering their intended use.

The thread concerns synthesis, the original goal of which(if you believe the so-called modern era composers) was to produce musical works that were free of the contstraints of scale, mode, meter, etc. A synthesizer now dubbed as classic is often one associated with a genre, subgenre or whatever. As 7hz pointed out, the tendacy of derivative inspired style is spreading itself too thin, possibly because the desire for the "new sound" may be moving too fast for humans to innovate. So we end up just recycling the old sound in a different light, and some or all of the original inspiration is lost each time.
If this pattern continues, the "personal media center" concept may plateau at some sort of handheld device connected to your mind that either contains all recordings of the past that you could ever hope to hear in a lifetime and plays them at your bidding,(ie. the nostalgia machine) or automatically generates music to your mood from billions of recordings morphed together in a generative fashion.(Yes, I know that Futurama episode holophoner thingy. What I mean is something that actually bypasses the need for any virtuoso skill and concentration)
Either way, the revolution is in the fundamental of "memories of sound", both personal and shared. In other words, such a device would make the musician as we know it obsolete. The computer and your mind would generate it, making any person, including the deaf, capable of composing in a style that would grow and change every day. Every composition created becomes part of the grand design.

Now if that is indeed the future, and the classics are simply devices that played in one western scale, with a handful of ways to manipulate tone, pitch and rhythm, who's to say there will be any satisfaction in playing with your hands or even hearing it through a speaker anymore? There always will be for some, I'm sure, but I thought it would be worth putting into that perspective.

Anyway, my vote for the tactile, 12 tone, tonal and pitch modulation device that will survive into the days of Buck Rogers and company would be some kind of really basic sampler you could circuit-bend like an SK-1. Just something you can sample with quickly and get playing. The more intuitive the better. The less knobs, while still allowing for expressive controls, the better. I dunno what would qualify. Nothing with a goddam menu button on it.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
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Post by tim gueguen » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:26 am

Syn303 wrote:I should point out in this thread that you all go on about which synths will become classics in 20-30 years time... the question is will any of you be around in that time - think about it!
Unless you know something the rest of don't its fair to assume most of the regulars on this board will still be alive in 20 years.
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Post by AstroDan » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:38 am

I won't be here...but I don't know how he knew that.
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Post by BluMunk » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:05 am

All I know is that I don't own a MicroKorg now, and I can't see wanting something 20 years from now that I can only get via the MicroKorg.

Who's the target market in 20 years for used beat up MicroKorgs at a higher-than-new price?

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Post by voltageHead » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:18 am

I think that what will be look at as classics are what people don't like right now. The stuff that is classic now was mostly sold cheap a few years after they came out.

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Post by Dreamtronix » Thu May 01, 2008 10:16 pm

voltageHead wrote:I think that what will be look at as classics are what people don't like right now. The stuff that is classic now was mostly sold cheap a few years after they came out.
Hmm.. Not too sure about that. Most of the gear that's classic now was pretty expensive back 20+ years ago. The cLassic Rolands, Oberheims, SCI, etc...

Now if only Roland would make a new Jupiter analog poly.... excuse me while I go take a cold shower.
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Post by XpanderXt » Thu May 01, 2008 10:36 pm

It's so hard to tell what will be thought of as a classic.

Things that are revered now were dogs when they were new:
TB303, TR606, TR808, CR78, Moog Rogue, Sequential 6 track, Sequential Max, Crumar (most anything except Performer).....

Things that were good will always be good:
prophets, OB, Jupiters, etc

I say the
Alesis Fusion is a sleeper that will be loved when it's gone.
Andromeda, duh.
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Post by clusterchord » Thu May 01, 2008 11:49 pm

of analogs:

andromeda for sure
omega/code
sunsyn

waldorf hybrids:
microwave
q+


digitals:
neuron, if there will be a working unit alive
nord modular 1
xt
nord2 perhaps
even tho i hate the sound, i have to agree microKorg has a very good chance of becoming classic.

im pretty sure virus will exist in some incarnation as sftw or whatever, being repackaged so many times already. otherwise it definetely qualifies for a late 90s/early00s "classic" sound.

JD990 is not made for a longer while, but it hadnt reached it true "classic" potential yet. probably it will be more interesting to the market in some 10 - 15yrs.
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Post by pricklyrobot » Thu May 01, 2008 11:55 pm

XpanderXt wrote:It's so hard to tell what will be thought of as a classic.

Things that are revered now...Sequential 6 track, Sequential Max
Revered?! By whom?

The Prophet 5/10, the Pro One, and the VS could certainly qualify as revered (but as far as I know, they did pretty well when they were new), and the Prophet 600 is seen by many nowadays as a good bargain analog. But the 6 Track and the Max are pretty far down most people's SCI reverence lists.

As far as future classics, everyone knows that when the temporarily delayed post-apocalyptic wasteland that we were promised in the '80s finally gets here, we'll be too busy scrounging for cans of Dinky-Do to worry about electronical noise-makers.
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Post by xpander » Fri May 02, 2008 12:00 am

pricklyrobot wrote:
XpanderXt wrote:It's so hard to tell what will be thought of as a classic.

Things that are revered now...Sequential 6 track, Sequential Max
Revered?! By whom?
i was thinking the same thing, they sell on local CL for dirt in mint condition. even the Pro One still relatively cheap, i guess if they made a whiteface version it would be worth $2000 though.

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Post by RawBC » Fri May 02, 2008 8:43 pm

Hmmmm...classic eh?

All right, well here goes, and apply a "second"/"+1" vote to whatever was mentioned then:

Akai MPC 1000

Akai MPC 2000

Alesis AirSynth & AirFX

Korg MS2000 & 2000R (don't forget the "B" variants, too.)

Roland D2

Roland JP-80X0

Roland MC-09

Yamaha AN1X

Yamaha CS1X/CS2X

Yamaha RM1X

and of course all the great stuff Mr. Linn and Mr. Smith make...

...I was just thinking about the models listed, and you know, we are kind of living in the era of desktop sythesizers, Virtual Analogs, and a ton of software based synthesis. Maybe what we're seeing in the software vein of things is an indicator of what is classic now, but what do you think we will see in the future and considering as classics if we are rehashing our classics now in VA's and software? Not that there is anything wrong with that of course, we have at our fingertips the affordable means (and sometime more stable operating,) of synthesis we had to wish for and hope for otherwise. I couldn't afford a sampler or a 303 or an 808 years ago, but then I bought the MC-09 because that's what I could afford and it did the trick. I couldn't afford to buy a bevy of Yamaha, Moog, Arps, etc; but I could afford a good used RM1X. Hmmmm...just something to ponder.
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Post by RawBC » Fri May 02, 2008 8:45 pm

...oh, and the Yamaha TG-33.

Sorry.
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Post by th0mas » Fri May 02, 2008 9:05 pm

pricklyrobot wrote: As far as future classics, everyone knows that when the temporarily delayed post-apocalyptic wasteland that we were promised in the '80s finally gets here, we'll be too busy scrounging for cans of Dinky-Do to worry about electronical noise-makers.
WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?! The post-apocalyptic settings will be in prime need for ambient synth-based soundtracks. Judging from the movies I've seen, it'll be all that is left of music.

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