The Vintage-classics of the future - What synths and Why?

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Shleed
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Post by Shleed » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:28 am

Microkorg - c**p all impact on music?

You on drugs?

I think It will become a classic in the future, simply because of it's portability. Korg got it right with this, and it's far from a "toy" synth. :wink:

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Post by iProg » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:26 am

I agree with earlier posts that there is no doubt that the Prophet '08 will be a classic. Once the original Prophets have died, its sounds will be very sought-after. Dave Smith is a great businessman.

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Post by Umbe78 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:06 am

I should be very happy when so many people give a "classic" status to my tools .... Elektron, JP8k and NL2 .... but I don't think so ...
I think classic will be Neuron for innovation and its personal history ...
Maybe a Mono / Poly Evolver because it's a Hybrid but not a Prophet 08 , it's a reissue after all
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Post by Soundwave » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:02 am

The Prophet 08 will become like the Prophet 600 is now.

Microkorgs/MS2000 will be bargain bucket classics not a 'vintage' that will be much sought after, they will become like the CZ101 and or Poly800 is now and a modern equivalent will make them obsolete being a standard popular design.

The Solaris, VL-1 and Fizmo are destined for vintage status too methinkx urgetoplay. :wink:

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Post by cartesia » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:21 am

Microkorg - c**p all impact on music?

You on drugs?
Show me an example and I'll gladly retract my comment.

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Post by tyrannosaurus mark » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:19 am

cartesia wrote:
Microkorg - c**p all impact on music?

You on drugs?
Show me an example and I'll gladly retract my comment.
I remember people pointing out lists of songs from different top 40 artists that are using microkorg presets

Alot of the indie electro stuff uses lots of microkorg, bands like LCD Soundsystem, hot chip

However, I could imagine there being cheaper and even smaller/easier to use/more modern sounding synths developed which would just replace the microkorg for a long time



I think that vintage laptops/softsynths/ableton live setups will become cool as a vintage item
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Post by TrondC » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:22 am

too hard to say, unless some artist creates a whole new sound that requires a specific synth to create, I think only the real high-end synths of today will be classics in the future. after all, who wants to waste 50cm of space for a MS2000 when in 30 years, everyone will have massive (sound wise) virtual modulars in the size of a kaossilator? ;) then again, there will always be some people who won't embrace the computer era (and I do believe that synths will be more and more often software for computers) and go "vintage" or "old school" and rely on hardware only.

I do agree that the tribes could make the cut as future classics, but I expect they will represent more a "novelty" side rather than have the massice impact like the x0x'es and old analogs like the oddy or mini, that spawned a million clones. I don't expect we'll see clones of the 1990-2010 synths, rather just a continuum of improvements as the years go by.

to be a true classic, a synth needs to have a certain sound that's hard t replicate, and possibly consist of parts that are very hard to come by decades after the synths become discontiniued. thus, I find it hard to beleieve anyone will crave for microkorgs as their sound should be a lot easier to re-create that the infamous 303, which had some odd parts (or so I've been led to believe) that made it too hard and expensive for roland to start producing them again, even tho they'd sell like hot cakes...

anyway, don't listen to me, I generally don't know what I'm talking about ;) this is just how I see things :)

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Post by spookyman » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:50 am

Moog Voyager

dotcom modulars

Waldorf Q

These machines could be seen as "classic" in 20 - 30 years.
It is much easier to be a good equipment purchaser than to be a great musician.

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Post by 7Hz » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:29 pm

Soundwave wrote:
7Hz wrote:I don't think any synth made today will become a classic.

The golden age of synths has passed. There is no groundbreaking music being made these days, so there is nothing like the 303 level of cult status going to be attached to any of the new peices of gear.
:D
Elektron with IDM/Minimal/Glitch/Techno? :roll:
I hardly think Elektron is piviotal in any of those genres. Used, maybe, but not defining as 808, 909 were to electro / pop / techno in the 80's and 90's by any stretch of the imagination.
Stab Frenzy wrote:
7Hz wrote:I don't think any synth made today will become a classic.

The golden age of synths has passed. There is no groundbreaking music being made these days, so there is nothing like the 303 level of cult status going to be attached to any of the new peices of gear.
Here's a pointy hat, go sit in the corner.
:D
TrondC wrote:too hard to say, unless some artist creates a whole new sound that requires a specific synth to create
I agree totally.

The only real classics that are about today fall into two camps:

* The quality expensive boutique stuff - Voyager, Omega8, SunSyn, Metasonix stuff etc

* The stuff that is, or will be, out of production because of no parts - Electron Sid Station, x0xb0x, SunSyn

Cheap digital chaff like MicroKorgs etc etc will be in every junk shop at £10. Not that they are BAD boards, but just that they are two-a-penny and don't add anything to what can be done.

Vintage computers and soft synths are already worthless, and I don't see them ever being worth any more than the cost of scrap plastic / metal. Sure, it's fun to fire up an old computer with an old program, but it's just nostalga.

Like guitars, the 'golden age' has been and passed - Gibson Les Paul = Moog Minimoog, '59 Strat = '84 303. these guitars / synths will forever be the true classics, because they were new and defined a musical generation. The new centuary has only brought stale rehash of 70's, 80's, 90's music - sure, they may be clique innovation on the boundaries, but pop is dead. Roll on 2020 :D
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Post by differentbydesign » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:05 pm

When we love something we tend to inflate its relative importance in the world and for that reason and other reasons I believe the following.

I doubt that in 30 years there is another revival of interest in Synthesizers as we have today. Yes there will still be people (us) who collect and value both the classics of yesteryear like the Mini. Pro 5, OBXA, PPG etc and the next generation of classics like TG & SY, JD & JX Ensoniq VFX, Waldorfs etc or the current ones Radius, Virus, Prophet 08 .
I suspect that in 30 years the trend will be towards an integrated music solution in the mould of what he today call a workstation but with a reduction in size and with dramatically increased options for sound production. The inclusion of elements that can be customized to each user so that each machine sounds different according to who plays it . Something like KARMA but allowing the user to "Model" their playing, singing, drumming, strumming styles and intergrate these into the machines software and yes I think it will be software based.

I make no predictions as to what sounds will be like in 30 years but in my opinion while the technology has come a long way in the last 30 years the sounds have not come so far as you might like. Yes we have lots of polyphony and multiple effects and other good stuff but we mostly spend time effort and technology trying to replicate or improve on the machines of 20 or 30 years ago. While I happily do that I dont think it is the best possible use of the technology. Simply put we have not moved as far ahead as we should have in 30 years.

I also dont think that we tend to have more than 1 revival for such things and so much of what excites us here on this forum will not be held in such high regard in 3 more decades.

Prophesy over!
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Post by Soundwave » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:20 pm

7Hz wrote:quote]

I hardly think Elektron is piviotal in any of those genres. Used, maybe, but not defining as 808, 909 were to electro / pop / techno in the 80's and 90's by any stretch of the imagination.
Then why is it that I hear a Machinedrum on every other minimal house single these days and Autechre are almost like a touring promotion for both uints. Elektrons are already quite defining even now and will continue to do so as more pepole get hold of them being a landmark in revlotionary new hardware design n all. However I do think that the units around now will just become obsolete over whatever gets released in the future unless future models are substantially different in some way.

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Post by ronP » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:25 pm

tyrannosaurus mark wrote:
cartesia wrote:

However, I could imagine there being cheaper and even smaller/easier to use/more modern sounding synths developed which would just replace the microkorg for a long time
.


And that might just be . . . the Kaossillator !?!


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Post by CS_TBL » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:03 pm

Here's where I think we are in 30 years:

Sampling

What's elite today will be a cookiecrum in 30 years. In 30 years storage media are so vast that one could have instruments sampled with 128 velocities, at least 16 alternatives each, and all the possibly playing styles. Furthermore: ensemble samples are a thing of the past then, we'll be using individual solo samples to build our ensembles. There's already something like that today, and it costs ya a small fortune today! In 30 years time, every instrument has been recorded with the details I've mentioned. 100TB would be an average size I guess, just imagine what would all fit into 100TB. btw, in '94 orso my PC's HD was 420MB, now 14 years later I've more than 1TB in total, that's over 20x growth. With this pace in 30 years we'll have 400 TB harddisks for consumer prices.

With probably every interval sampled at every dynamic, with probably every possibly performance mistake sampled plenty o' times, etc. etc. whatever we'll make with it will sound realistic. I estimate this would put orchestras back to the visual entertainment rather than providing a sound a (giga)sampler couldn't 100% match today. I know this has been said in the past with the rise of the early samplers, but that was really different. No matter how long those samplers have been around, it's only since the last 5 years or so that we could say: 'oh, this is finally reasonably convincing!'

Robots and such are probably constructed to play those instruments at every velocity and with all kinds of transitions and playing styles, for the simple reason no group o' players is crazy enough to perform 100.000.000 strikes/bows/blows. Not to mention that no-one is crazy enough to do all the cutting/editing (another automated task).

However, there could be another option:

I see a lot of potential in robots and mechanisms which could do fine movements. Perhaps some lunatic is silly enough to create a robot orchestra in a fixed studio. A bunch o' robots smart enough to actually play an instrument like humans do, including every artifacts humans do, including mistakes. Perhaps ppl could rent such an orchestra from their home seat and hear what the robot orchestra is playing over fast internet. This would mean that only 1 person could hire it at a time tho. A development like this would not need any sampling/editing, what you get is an orchestra playing it right away, without rehearsals.

virtual modeling

Perhaps we don't need sampling in the future at all. Perhaps virtual modeling will become so advanced that even the sharpest orchestrator and instrumentalist could not tell the difference between real and modeled.

When virtual modeling also makes authentic models of analogue synths, of which no one can say there's a difference, then there's little to no value of any synth made sofar, and thus there wouldn't be 'vintage' synths in the future, unless you like having a museum of old stuff.
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Post by GeneralBigbag » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:10 pm

7Hz wrote:The new centuary has only brought stale rehash of 70's, 80's, 90's music - sure, they may be clique innovation on the boundaries, but pop is dead. Roll on 2020 :D
Funny how everyone I've talked to with that opinion doesn't actually know what's going on in modern music...

Anyway - the Evolver absolutely
possibly the Elektron gear, but as instruments, rather than synths
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Post by 7Hz » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:55 pm

GeneralBigbag wrote:
7Hz wrote:The new centuary has only brought stale rehash of 70's, 80's, 90's music - sure, they may be clique innovation on the boundaries, but pop is dead. Roll on 2020 :D
Funny how everyone I've talked to with that opinion doesn't actually know what's going on in modern music...
Well Bigbag, instead of being condescending, fill me in with the great movement for the people that is happening in music right now.

Last century saw an amazing flood of new musics. The naughties have been disappointing in the extreme for any real, non-derivative, new music that doesn't sound like someones tied a Casio to a 3 year old and called it avant-garde. There are some vaguely interesting new forms (dub step, for example), but it is soooo derivative. It's like everyone is treading water. Hey, I can't avoid my own criticism, I'm hopelessly stuck in the 80's / 90's. But most music has lost it's vitality. No one cares anymore. There are no record companies giving artists money. We are all too fat and slaked, diluted by endless www possibilities and virtual lives (me too).

It doesn't matter. I still enjoy getting some sounds together and tweaking away. It's therapy.
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