Yamaha DX-21 reborn!

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OriginalJambo
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Post by OriginalJambo » Thu May 01, 2008 10:42 pm

I bought some Kid Nepro soundbanks for my DX7 and from the ones I've tried thus far it's mostly been disappointing.

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Post by ERIC31 » Thu May 01, 2008 11:20 pm

D-Collector wrote:If you're looking for quality patches, I would think twice about Patchman music and Kid Nepro. Just saying. :?

I noticed in your other thread you are eager to pay the people for their job, and that is of course the right thing to do :wink:, but I have great doubts as to how much effort is really put into their soundbanks.

Why pay for something you can (with a little time and effort) do better yourself? :wink:
That would be nice, but I have gone through the manual and a couple books on programming FM synths and I'm STILL completely in the dark on what it's saying. (This synth was sitting in my closet for a few years) It might as well be written in Japanese! (which I can't understand either!) I'd rather pay a "pro" for their efforts and get what I want. What I'm getting at is I'm much more interested in creating the songs as opposed to the sounds. :D

That's another reason I want an Alesis Ion....knobs, knobs, knobs ready to tweak in real time! that I understand!
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Post by bluedad » Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 am

braincandy wrote: I'll give you an example: Key Clique.

For a long time during the 80s, they were considered THE top 3rd-party sound vendor for the DX-series. Bo Tomlyn isn't even in the business anymore nor is there a Key Clique. So, are these patches now simply off limits to anyone who wasn't around to buy them during that time?
For a while at least one of the Key Clique collections was available on the net, but apparently he found out and had them pulled. When I saw it in one of the collections I was surprised; but I seem to have lost it on some forgotten hard drive. I've got one cartridge for my dx7, but the midi in\outs aren't functioning so I can't get it in the computer to play with in FM8!!
Anyway, technically and ethically, they're his intellectual property and is copyrighted material. But I think it's a damn shame he doesn't either sell them, or make them available because they were pretty good.
Last edited by bluedad on Fri May 02, 2008 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by braincandy » Fri May 02, 2008 2:02 am

Yeah, when I was asking about companies no longer in business I was asking out of ignorance, not because I thought sounds should be sold illegally. After thinking about it, it would bother me, too, if someone was making money off my work without me receiving any compensation, whether I was still in the business or not.

It's a shame that companies like Key Clique and Deep Magic are no longer around, but from what I remember reading during the late 80s, they were having issues with piracy even then, as people would trade floppies of sysex data with copyrighted patches on them.

Gary, Key Clique made some of the best sounds I've ever used on my DX-21. An acquaintance had them for his DX7 and they were very impressive. It would be amazing if NI came out with "The Bo Tomlyn Signature Collection" for FM8, would it not?

For those of you who scoff about being lazy about buying 3rd-party patches, I see nothing wrong with them. These sounds can often inspire you to make edits, which can lead to even bigger changes or can make you realize that your synth is possible of producing sounds you previously didn't think were possible. For example, I like some of the sounds I was getting on a DW8000, but the patches I bought from Deep Magic were much more impressive and had these really cool drones and pads that I wasn't getting before.

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Post by D-Collector » Fri May 02, 2008 12:10 pm

ERIC31 wrote:
D-Collector wrote:If you're looking for quality patches, I would think twice about Patchman music and Kid Nepro. Just saying. :?

I noticed in your other thread you are eager to pay the people for their job, and that is of course the right thing to do :wink:, but I have great doubts as to how much effort is really put into their soundbanks.

Why pay for something you can (with a little time and effort) do better yourself? :wink:
That would be nice, but I have gone through the manual and a couple books on programming FM synths and I'm STILL completely in the dark on what it's saying. (This synth was sitting in my closet for a few years) It might as well be written in Japanese! (which I can't understand either!) I'd rather pay a "pro" for their efforts and get what I want. What I'm getting at is I'm much more interested in creating the songs as opposed to the sounds. :D

That's another reason I want an Alesis Ion....knobs, knobs, knobs ready to tweak in real time! that I understand!
I see what you mean. It's just that many of the "professionals" are charging rediculous prices for poorly done work, and that is really bugging me. I have had bad experiences in the past with several of the programming houses mentioned in the thread, receiving corrupted banks, no email response when trying to sort it out, and (most often) getting banks that sound plain c**p. This was a long time ago though, when I had just gotten into synths and wanted something to start out with. Making songs rather than patches, like you said :wink: After that, I have only made my own sounds and I will continue to do so. That is not to say that there is no good banks out there, but I would certainly ask around forums and such before I put my money into commercial soundbanks. I think your new sticky thread is a great idea, if we can sort out some of the bad.

As for the DX21, I think to understand it you need to explore it, rather than being a slave to the manual. I don't think the manual is so bad, but it can complicate things. (If you think the DX21 manual is bad, you should check out the Roland D-20 manual :D)

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Post by Alex E » Fri May 02, 2008 12:27 pm

I'd never pay money for good patches for synths I can easily program, but even with an editor FM can be confusing. Though, I did crank a PWM-esque techno sound out of my DX7 somehow back when I had DX manager. Makes me wish I had my DX7 again...
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Post by ERIC31 » Sat May 03, 2008 1:55 am

OriginalJambo wrote:I bought some Kid Nepro soundbanks for my DX7 and from the ones I've tried thus far it's mostly been disappointing.
Are they muddy sounding with no brightness? That's my main problem with all the regular sounds in the DX21. I like everything to sound bright with a good bottom end. I'd hate to pay to get sounds from them that sound like the presets in this synth!

Most of the sounds on that bootleg CD I have are typically kinda muddy but some are robust and bright. They seem to come from different sources so I wish I could find out who programmed the good ones so I could get them all from one place!
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Post by solderguy » Sat May 03, 2008 4:39 am

I actually like the DX21 quite a bit, except for that squinty little non-backlit LCD and the very finicky buttons. Layer/split ability plus analog chorus make it rather different to other DX.

Thing I noticed about the online patches though - patches for the Ensoniq ESQ-1 are generally higher quality and more interesting than DX21, and the patches for the D-50 are higher quality and more interesting than ESQ-1. ( imho ). Didn't actually care for that many of the online DX21 patches. I think this is more a consequence of people spending the time to make decent programs than anything else. Don't have a DX21 anymore, but IIRC it is capable of making brighter sounds than the ESQ-1, and probably the D-50 as well.

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Post by ERIC31 » Sun May 04, 2008 1:03 am

On that CD I got, there are some good sounds but they are scattered among the various banks in the library. Is there a way to pull specific sounds from each bank, then put them into a new bank? That way I can load all the sounds I like into the 32 RAM spots in my synth. No spots wasted with crappy sounds.
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Post by D-Collector » Sun May 04, 2008 1:47 am

Check out this site, http://www.burp.nl/dx/ and go to the software page, download sysex97 and the instrument definition for DX21 and you got a great librarian, copy and paste patches from your synth as you wish. Otherwise it's a great site with many patches and information :wink:

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Post by ERIC31 » Sun May 04, 2008 5:34 am

D-Collector wrote:Check out this site, http://www.burp.nl/dx/ and go to the software page, download sysex97 and the instrument definition for DX21 and you got a great librarian, copy and paste patches from your synth as you wish. Otherwise it's a great site with many patches and information :wink:
Well, here's a big surprise.....the sounds that are on that CD I paid $14 for are EXACTLY the same sounds found on that site for free!!! That's where that guy got all of them from. He's got balls to be selling them outright like that. Never understimate the value of information! $14 lost but oh well. A lesson learned. :evil: :oops:

DO NOT BUY THIS CD ON EBAY!!!! go to http://www.burp.nl/dx/ and get these sounds and files for FREE!!!!!!!!Image
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Post by smallsynth » Mon May 05, 2008 5:02 pm

i think this is exactly what people were complaining about, and it upsets me as well.....

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Post by sam » Mon May 05, 2008 6:53 pm

smallsynth wrote:i think this is exactly what people were complaining about, and it upsets me as well.....
And that goes for manuals and schematics people try to sell when they are freely available on the net.
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Post by ERIC31 » Mon May 05, 2008 9:21 pm

I just got 2 new legit sets of sounds from www.greytsounds.com
I'll load them up tonight after work and let you guys and gals know how good they are. :D

Not sure how to make sample sounds from my synth to post up here though.
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Post by MrFrodo » Tue May 06, 2008 6:10 am

The DX-21 is a good toy. I borrowed one from a friend a couple of years ago. I liked it, but the most it really did for me was whet my apetite for a DX instrument with either 6 operators or touch response. I've spent the last two years trying to decide which one to get.

First, I think of the DX7 MkII (most likely selection) or the TX-802. Then, I start wanting a DX5 or a rackmount version thereof. Beyond there, I start wondering about an instrument from the SY/TG series. Paralyzed by indecision. What comes most highly recommended, people?
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