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Yamaha DX-21 reborn!

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:59 pm
by ERIC31
The first synth I bought years ago was a Yamaha DX-21. I didn't do my homework before buying it and I think it sucks. I've never been able to get good sounds out of it.
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I said that in another thread....now...an update to this tale.....I recently acquired a CD full of a couple hundred sounds for this synth and it's a completely different beast now! I was shocked at the sounds coming out of my DX after loading the new files in. I wonder why Yamaha didn't bother to program the good stuff from the start? I don't know who made these patches (Kid Nepro?) but lots of them are really good! Some of the stuff still sounds like c**p and the original sounds are on the CD as well. Amazing...I had all but given up on this synth and was seriously considering selling it. I am completely clueless with FM synth programming! Glad I didn't sell it.

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Re: Yamaha DX-21 reborn!

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:23 am
by Yoozer
ERIC31 wrote: I wonder why Yamaha didn't bother to program the good stuff from the start?
They did. However, 1987's customers would not be impressed with drones, ambient patches or typically synthetic sounds ;).

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:42 am
by braincandy
My memories of the presets were that they (Yamaha) was trying to make it sound as close to a DX7 as possible. A couple of people I knew had DX7s when I had my 21 and that was my impression, although the DX-21 had a lot more presets than the DX7.

One trick I remember doing was layering the same sound with itself and adjusting the dual detune to get a chorus effect. Yes, it's simple and extremely lo-tech, but it helped thicken the sounds a little bit.

Re: Yamaha DX-21 reborn!

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:42 am
by Alex E
Yoozer wrote:
ERIC31 wrote: I wonder why Yamaha didn't bother to program the good stuff from the start?
They did. However, 1987's customers would not be impressed with drones, ambient patches or typically synthetic sounds ;).
Exactly, my Dad bought a brand new DX11 in 1988 hoping for a good grand piano sound!

But he sold it the same year and bought an EPS to replace it for obvious reasons... :wink:

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:51 am
by voltageHead
DX-21 good old FM.
I got a DX-9 sitting at my parents place.
The DX-9 is a neat synth I would think that the dx-21 would kinda sound like the DX-9.I should try and track down a editor or some patched for the dx-9

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:28 am
by MicroFi
Could you tell us where you got the cd from? I might me interested as well, because my dx-21 doesn't get that much use anymore either.

And could you post some samples? :)
Nice find, by the way!

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:23 pm
by Yoozer
The CD is probably not that much different from going on a download binge and scouring the net for all those patches.

When stuff like this is sold, unless it's from an actual professional patch builder, it's a shitload of presets in .syx format that are (at best) categorized.

Re: Yamaha DX-21 reborn!

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:32 pm
by metrosonus
ERIC31 wrote:
I recently acquired a CD full of a couple hundred sounds for this synth
you didnt buy one of those vintage synth rescue kits did you ?

I have a bit of an issue with that guy in particular.. but in general I do not support data mining and the reselling of otherwise free information to people. These people are crooks trying to make a living off of other peoples work.

Re: Yamaha DX-21 reborn!

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:51 pm
by rockmanrock
metrosonus wrote:
ERIC31 wrote:
I recently acquired a CD full of a couple hundred sounds for this synth
you didnt buy one of those vintage synth rescue kits did you ?

I have a bit of an issue with that guy in particular.. but in general I do not support data mining and the reselling of otherwise free information to people. These people are crooks trying to make a living off of other peoples work.
That's what I thougt when I saw the CD pic, it's the guy on Ebay selling other people's editors and patches.

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:05 pm
by braincandy
What if the creators of those patches are no longer in business? Keyboard used to have tons of 3rd-party patch vendors advertising there in the 80s and 90s, but many of those companies don't even seem to exist anymore if you were to scan through a current issue or search on the Web. At what point do they become public domain?

I'll give you an example: Key Clique.

For a long time during the 80s, they were considered THE top 3rd-party sound vendor for the DX-series. Bo Tomlyn isn't even in the business anymore nor is there a Key Clique. So, are these patches now simply off limits to anyone who wasn't around to buy them during that time?

I think you should always purchase sounds legitimately if they're still available from vendors, such as Cesium Sound, Syntaur, Kid Nepro, Patchman, etc. I'm just referring to companies which are no longer in business.

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:07 pm
by metrosonus
At what point do they become public domain?
What does it matter? Copying and selling something that was not yours to begin with is unethical.

Were assuming permission was not obtained and we're disregarding transactions such as license transfers and the like.

I'm a hard a*s about this kind of stuff and I hope I'm not coming across as being abrasive, long story short, I work hard, I pay my bills. I'm not giving money to someone who is selling me stolen goods. They're not living the easy life on my dollar, I worked hard for it.

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:11 pm
by D-Collector
I miss my DX21. I was able to program some great sounds in it, and I think it is a good synth. You can do so much with it. However, I sold it when I got my TX7.

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:49 pm
by waveterm
At what point do they become public domain?
The moment the creator releases them for free use.

Patches are subject of copyright.

WT

Re: Yamaha DX-21 reborn!

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:55 pm
by ERIC31
you didnt buy one of those vintage synth rescue kits did you ?

I have a bit of an issue with that guy in particular.. but in general I do not support data mining and the reselling of otherwise free information to people. These people are crooks trying to make a living off of other peoples work.

That's what I thougt when I saw the CD pic, it's the guy on Ebay selling other people's editors and patches.
No on the vintage synth rescue kit.

I did buy this CD from the eBay guy. No idea where he gets his stuff. I was just looking for some sounds to make this thing worth keeping. I only recently heard about KidNepro and will be getting one of their sound sets for the DX-21 as well. I assume that their patches will be superior.

I'm not trying to rip anyone off, I just wanted some decent sounds for this very old synth.

this place looks good!
http://www.patchmanmusic.com/yamaha.html

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:22 pm
by D-Collector
If you're looking for quality patches, I would think twice about Patchman music and Kid Nepro. Just saying. :?

I noticed in your other thread you are eager to pay the people for their job, and that is of course the right thing to do :wink:, but I have great doubts as to how much effort is really put into their soundbanks.

Why pay for something you can (with a little time and effort) do better yourself? :wink: