16-Step pattern sequencer / MIDI (Mobius, MFB, etc)

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crufty
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Post by crufty » Fri May 09, 2008 1:19 am

velocity is something both emx1 & mc 808 suck at, but I believe you can do.

re emx1 mute: to clarify I had a drumstation tied to the emx1 drum parts...does that matter? I'd mute the kick and bumf bumf bumf the drumstation would go.

I think the mc 909 had velocity sensitive pads, something I dearly wish the mc 808 had.

i didn't find the mc808 unintuitive. The manual is just bad. Is that the same thing? I guess it is. Geezbus Roland, look @ the andromeda manual. It's a thing of beauty.

mc808 has its issues, it's workflow is different: there is a compose mindset and a playback mindset. It works because you can playback your stuff without accidentally mangling it. And I LOVE LOVE LOVE the fact you can have 32+ bars and a native 1/32 resolution. I hate hate hate pattern chaining. Anybody looking to sequence xtrnl gear would be wise to give the mc909/808 a peep.

don't get me wrong i like the emx-1 for its sound. Great engine in there, I really like its grain shifter.

good xtrnl sequencers are a hard thing to find. Some folks have reported using the mpc series as well. Myself, meh....hard to justify.

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Post by aredj » Fri May 09, 2008 1:52 am

Electribes do not do velocity in their sequencers.

They respond to it from an external source but do not record it... the mx/sx anyway...

Where the roland mc's do... again... I gotta plug the mc307 in comparison to its bigger brothers... its not a sampler (thus cheaper)... and way smaller... and sequences external gear very well...(8 poly channels)

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Post by mute » Fri May 09, 2008 2:43 am

hey, thanks for all great the replies!


I should've stated in my op that I own a Korg ESX. I've looked at an EMX but I think I only want one electribe. I have given it thought tho. The other synth I want to drive live is a MS2000b. I've already got computer&laptop midi for it and everything else but I'm really fascinated with the idea of having a step sequencer (racked :)) to drive it. I've never liked step sequencers in software really.. but in hardware I love em so I'd like to get me a nice one.

BUT.. I also had no idea that the Monomachine was so powerful. I almost got a Machinedrum before the I got the ESX.. but the price vs features won my wallet. I look at MD stuff all the time.. I really need to stop.

So the internal sequencer on the Monomachine.. can it have more midi channels that in does internally? By that I mean can the sequencer have extra tracks soley for midi while still being able to use all its internal voices? I dont really need/want another synth right now (i would have to sell something and i find that decision hard to make) but now i'm confused. im still leaning towards the direction of a rack step sequencer tho..

ive decided against the step64 unless someone stands up and goes "THIS THING ROCKS!" but from what i read i don't think that's going to happen. Seems pretty utilitarian and not much fun.

Someone mentioned the 507.. so its a full on sequencer with poly/aftertouch/vel/etc? Does that really cheap 2nd hand mc307 do that as well? I've seen those things go for like 100-150$'s, but they're still kinda new products..I find that worrisome. Same with the D2's with the X/Y type pad.. I wonder what it can do. That's some cheap kit.
As far as I know, the MAQ 16/3 is 3 monophonic tracks which can be used for any "control voltage" including pitch, filter, etc. You could have a 3 note chord with each note on a seperate track. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
Right on.. thats exactly what i'm planning as a hopeful option and what i was really aiming the original post at, lookin back i didnt really get it out that way. i'm looking for this exact same type of sequencer re: the korg sq-10 and doepfer model (both three sequencers in 1). So, if anyone knows some others?

I'm thinkin about some of these other options now, but still..., if a racked step sequencer I can afford pops up... I would jump on it immediately.. the Doepfer sequencer is aces but costs to much. It just might be worth it though... ouch. Maybe that can be my 1 super nice piece of kit.

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Post by killedaway » Fri May 09, 2008 2:57 am

mute wrote: So the internal sequencer on the Monomachine.. can it have more midi channels that in does internally? By that I mean can the sequencer have extra tracks soley for midi while still being able to use all its internal voices?
yep. six tracks with internal voices, six additional MIDI-only tracks (utilizing separate channels). 12 mono tracks in total.
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Post by Z » Fri May 09, 2008 4:01 am

mute wrote:
As far as I know, the MAQ 16/3 is 3 monophonic tracks which can be used for any "control voltage" including pitch, filter, etc. You could have a 3 note chord with each note on a seperate track. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
Right on.. thats exactly what i'm planning as a hopeful option and what i was really aiming the original post at, lookin back i didnt really get it out that way. i'm looking for this exact same type of sequencer re: the korg sq-10 and doepfer model (both three sequencers in 1). So, if anyone knows some others?
Now remember, the Korg SQ-10 is not MIDI, CV (and it may only be Hz/Oct - I'm not totally sure) and Gate only. THe Doepfer is MIDI and CV/Gate

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Post by pour_furets » Fri May 09, 2008 4:08 am

I just have to chime in and disagree on the MC307 front. I've had one for about a year now and I've just been fighting with its sequencer the whole time. I really don't care for its 'TR style' entry. It's fine for percussion, but when trying to enter melodies or bass lines, it is very cumbersome. Step entry is much easier for that kind of thing. I definitely prefer my Electribe A for sequencing acid-y basslines. It does lack the accent/velocity control, though.

Maybe I should look into an MC505 which has a proper step entry mode. I like the concept and sound of the MC307, and entering notes in real time has never given me problems. I mainly got the 307 to use as a groove sequencer, though, and poorly implemented step entry has rather dimmed my view of that machine. Aredj, maybe you could give me some tips to help me love the 307 the way you do.

To the OP, the EMX is worth a second look. I love how Korg has implemented the sequencers in the tribes. Topping my fantasy gear wishlist--since no one asked--would be a knobby computer control surface with an EMX style sequencer in it. No synth engine, just controls and sequencer with USB bus power.
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Post by mute » Fri May 09, 2008 4:23 am

pour_furets wrote: Topping my fantasy gear wishlist--since no one asked--would be a knobby computer control surface with an EMX style sequencer in it. No synth engine, just controls and sequencer with USB bus power.
Here here, I 2nd
Its silly that no one outside a small selection of mini-companies have made modern midi sequencers in this light. Step sequencers rule and popularity of grooveboxes and external controllers like the monome prove their popularity. Like... give me a groovebox sequencer with poly and all the other features removed, keeping just the midi.. and i'd be happy. Anything too digital for editing or requiring page edits = not what I want.

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Re: 16-Step pattern sequencer / MIDI (Mobius, MFB, etc)

Post by breitt » Fri May 09, 2008 5:07 am

mute wrote:Any recommendations? I would buy the Mobius in a heartbeat if it was polyphonic..

This is for studio and live use so I would like something flexible enough to fit those ends. I've searched and searched but can't really find anything dedicated enough at resonable prices outside the step64 and mobius.
Ah, yes--my eternal quest as well. At one point, I racked 3 Mobiuses and controlled 3/4 of the parts of my Nord Lead. It actually worked out quite nice. The Mobius is the easiest, most intuitive sequencer ever manufactured. I've tried many. The most fully-featured (and expensive) that I've owned was the Schrittmacher. I do miss it, though it took a bit more conceptualization power than I had at the time. The only sequencer that I owned that truly had it all (in theory, anyway), was the Doepfer Schaltwerk. The problem was that I was using it to sequence a Vermona DRM and the midi-timing on the Schaltwerk was awful. It ended up behind or ahead a beat or two if too much midi info was streaming through it. All these Roland MC boxes and Korg Electribe-style units may do it for some people, but I'm still waiting for the perfect "QuadroMobius." I'm holding my breath and my pennies to see what the GenoQs Nemo looks like in July. Until then, I will keep using my Monomachine, which is, hands-down, the best available option.
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Post by aredj » Fri May 09, 2008 5:34 am

pour_furets wrote:Aredj, maybe you could give me some tips to help me love the 307 the way you do.
Heh... Love? Well... I rarley use the step sequencer... especially for melodies and chords. Although I'm not sure how it differs from any other... Its quick to set vel, and gate with the knobbies... seems easy enough

Truth be told, I typically work out my midi patterns in software (80% of the time) then record them into the groovebox... From there, the interface is good enough for a fairly dynamic playback with the mutes and volume changes, filters (considering your synths respond to the standard CC's)
(arppegiators are pretty good too)

Its strictly a playback sequencer for me... And its never without my EMX beside it...

That said... seems like the monomachine is where your brain is going, mute.
The sequencer in that machine sounds pretty hot... my friend just got one today... so I get to play with it soon... Im interested.

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Post by reset » Fri May 09, 2008 1:47 pm

I love the MnM for external sequencing. On the 6 external Midi tracks you can parameter lock 6 CCs plus program chnges. Also, you can use LFOs to affect CCs and the highly flexible arpeggiator outputs midi notes as well.
The 6 internal tracks output midi as well (notes + chords). I like sequencing ext gear with an internal track and use the MnM inputs on this track. GOODNESS!!!!!

MnM is highly recommended and MK1s can be had for under a grand.
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Post by JSRockit » Fri May 09, 2008 1:52 pm

Don't forget that the Machinedrum is also a very capable step sequencer as well... 16 midi machines = 16 tracks. Each track has 3 note poly as well...
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Post by haricots » Fri May 09, 2008 3:09 pm

There is the Cyclus with 8 tracks (http://www.spectralaudio.ch/) and the Flame Clockwork with 3 tracks (http://flame.fortschritt-musik.de/start.htm)

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Post by mute » Fri May 09, 2008 9:11 pm

Whoever that was that just outbid me on that Mobius..... I hate you. :cry:

Hadn't seen the Clockwork yet.. just watched the demo vid but I'll have to check into its features some more.

I'm really tempted to get a MM or MD.. I could almost kick myself for not bidding on the one that just went for 715$'s. Someone just got an insane deal.

The Mobius seems like the perfect solution for the time being because its way more more robust than my current midi/cv convertor and it has trigger out.. which means I could sync up the step sequencer on my JX-3P.. which is like 6 track poly. Dunno why I didnt think of that before.

With the Mob I could sync my jx3p, esx, sh101 and computer while using it to sequence my ms2k,.. its like that piece i've been missing forever. Now I gotta wait and lurk ebay for the next couple months :(

On an semi-related note.. I'm pretty sure a MD is in my future.. I just havent been able to shake the desire. I think it's time i start selling off some of my older stuff.. i just hate shipping..

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Post by killedaway » Fri May 09, 2008 9:42 pm

mute wrote: With the Mob I could sync my jx3p, esx, sh101 and computer while using it to sequence my ms2k,.. its like that piece i've been missing forever.
your MS2K(r) has a 16-step (or 32, or whatever) sequencer inbuilt, hasn't it? or does it only store sequences per patch (been a long time since i had mine)?
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Post by mute » Fri May 09, 2008 10:06 pm

killedaway wrote: your MS2K(r) has a 16-step (or 32, or whatever) sequencer inbuilt, hasn't it? or does it only store sequences per patch (been a long time since i had mine)?
i got the br :)

yeah, but it's strictly for motion recording and parameter automation. theres no note triggering.. though you can more or less achieve the same result with the arpeggiator, latched, gate almost all the way off (just enough to trig the env per note of the arp), and adjusting the pitch + osc volumes for each step (which is why when ppl say the ms2000 doesnt have a programmable arpeggiator it shows they have no clue what they are talkin about ;P).

i've done a ton of analogue drum rhythms and bass this way but its too much of a pain to write out full on melodic parts with. it does send start/stop/sync messages iirc.. it's got alot of features for the sequencer for step lengths, directions, duration, etc. but no honest to goodness note sequencing. that actually caught me a bit off guard back when i originally got it, what with the electribes and other korg products that do.

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