Manuel Gottsching E2-E4 percussion sound

lost cause · Post by **lost cause** » Mon May 26, 2008 6:51 am

Hi guys,

I deliberated whether to post this here or in the production forum, my apologies if I selected the wrong option!

Anyway, does anyone know how Manuel made the atmospheric 'ambient' percussion sound in E2-E4? It kinda sounds like a glass bottle being hit with something (but more electronic if you know what I mean).

It's one of my all time favourite sounds and I'd love to know the the process he used to achieve it!

premieklovn · Post by **premieklovn** » Mon May 26, 2008 8:33 am

I don't know how he created that sound but I'm very interested in knowing what gear he used generally. The album was recorded in '81 and sounds so damn modern it's scary.

A wonderful masterpiece!

lost cause · Post by **lost cause** » Mon May 26, 2008 8:56 am

You can see Manuel's gear list on the official Ashra site, but I don't know which items he used on E2-E4. I suspect the Studio Roma equipment list has changed over the years!

Syn303 · Post by **Syn303** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:35 am

the drum machine used on E2-E4 is the rare EKO ComputeRhythm, not sure what is making the metallic bottle sound (but it is a ring-mod sound) possibly driven from a synth by a sequencer (ARP Sequencer) or triggered from the EKO.

The EKO ComputeRhythm:

tim gueguen · Post by **tim gueguen** » Mon May 26, 2008 3:55 pm

So, did Messrs. Froese and Franke use one? I'm pretty sure I've seen a photo of one of those in action someplace.

lost cause · Post by **lost cause** » Mon May 26, 2008 4:23 pm

AFAIK TD never used the EKO Computerhythm, but JMJ did.

The only photo I'd previously seen of it (until today) is on the back cover of Blackouts.

Anyway, back to the original subject of the thread...

Syn303 wrote:not sure what is making the metallic bottle sound (but it is a ring-mod sound)

Thanks for the input, can anyone expand on this info? What synth plug-in would you recommend I try to recreate it with and can anyone point me to some ring-mod percussion tutorials?

Many thanks...

hfinn · Post by **hfinn** » Mon May 26, 2008 4:42 pm

Such a fantastic album. Actually, all the Ash Ra Temple, Ashra, Manuel albums are great. If you can find it the Ash Ra Temple Private Tapes series is fantastic. Six discs...

Mooger5 · Post by **Mooger5** » Mon May 26, 2008 4:54 pm

lost cause wrote:You can see Manuel's gear list on the official Ashra site, but I don't know which items he used on E2-E4. I suspect the Studio Roma equipment list has changed over the years!

I´m listening to "Ruhige Nervosität", from that site. Sounds great. The live set-up pics are from ´76, but the song could have been performed with the same gear.

The bottle noises could have been made by the AKS ring modulator. After the opening the noises seem to appear randomly.

There´s an Odyssey, possibly for the sequence appearing at 2:42

The box on top of the Ody looks like an ARP sequencer...

The bass line sounds like a Mini. There are other keyboards in the pics but it´s impossible to guess. Anyway if the album was recorded at Conny Plank´s I´m almost sure there was a Mini around.
The Eko Rythmicomputer sounds very good and that way of programming precceded the TR-808 by a few years...

Edit: Er... I keep thinking every Krautrock album was recorded at Conny´s but Manuel had his own studio (Roma... duh!). Anyway there´s a Minimoog on the studio equipment list, so most definitely the bassline came from a Mini...

Cheers!

Syn303 · Post by **Syn303** » Mon May 26, 2008 5:20 pm

lost cause wrote:AFAIK TD never used the EKO Computerhythm, but JMJ did.

Yes JMJ used the EKO on Oxygene.

However TD possibly did use one as well. In an interview i once read, Chris Franke mentioned the PXR-5 Rhythm Controller, he said it was a "large box with 6 rows of 16 switches that lit up when you pressed them?"

Sounds like Franke talking about the EKO. The PXR-5 was supposedly used on the Green Desert album, however that was 1973 between Atem and Phaedra, the EKO appeared in 1972, so it's possible Franke had one.

The EKO was possibly one of the first programmable drum machines with that XoX grid programming. It also used punch-cards for programming rhythm patterns as well.

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Mon May 26, 2008 8:35 pm

Quote from Chris Franke (from the lenghty TD article on SOS):

"The Rhythm Controller was a surprise -- it came from Italy, from a company called EKO, who made all these cheap warehouse organs. They had come up with this science-fiction-looking machine, a console with eight rows of 16 big knobs which lit up! It worked like a sequencer, which was great, because there were no drum machines in those days. I could programme a rhythm that the machine could remember. It was completely analogue -- you pushed the buttons and they made the contact -- and it was polyphonic! The lights blinked, like on an early Moog sequencer. And when the sequence or rhythm was still running I could change it -- I could delete, skip, and change the rhythm while it was playing. I always liked this aspect of any sequencer. The internal sounds were pretty lousy, but the control panel looked great, and was nice to operate. Later, I built trigger outputs and triggered other synths with the thing, so it became a controller. Years later, I saw Manuel Goettsching play it live on stage in Paris".

Franke used the Computerhythm both in the studio and live from early 1973 through 1975. I'm pretty sure it's the instrument listed as "computer controlled rhythm programmer" in a gearlist I have from TD's concert at Royal Albert Hall back in 1975.

lost cause · Post by **lost cause** » Tue May 27, 2008 3:24 am

Many thanks for the info and pics guys!

Does anyone know what reverb unit(s) Manuel was using at that time?

As an aside, I remember reading a review of E2-E4 in one of the electronic music mags back in '83. The reviewer just didn't get it, he said it was an overtly repetitive 2nd rate TD backing track. On the same page, his review of Schulze's Drive Inn LP (very dull imho) was glowing in comparison... How wrong can some people be?

Anyway, for the h**l of it, my favourite Ashra/Gottsching tracks:

E2-E4
Correlations (whole LP)
Die Dominas - single
Mistral, Sausalito - Belle Alliance
Sunrain - New Age of Earth

premieklovn · Post by **premieklovn** » Wed May 28, 2008 1:49 pm

Hi

I might get some confirmed answers soon. I'm corresponding with Mr. Gottschings assistent and he said he was going to try to get some details from the E2-E4 recording. He did mention a Pearl Syncussion. Could that be it? Being processed from a extern ring-mod?

Mooger5 · Post by **Mooger5** » Wed May 28, 2008 3:29 pm

A delay line could also do the trick, I think. Slow modulation, high amplitude and very short delay time, high feedback...

suitandtieguy · Post by **suitandtieguy** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:40 am

does anyone know what he was using for the chords? the sequenced filter chord thing, that is.

Sir Ruff · Post by **Sir Ruff** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:28 pm

suitandtieguy wrote:does anyone know what he was using for the chords? the sequenced filter chord thing, that is.

did we ever find out how he did the chord thing?

Manuel Gottsching E2-E4 percussion sound

Manuel Gottsching E2-E4 percussion sound

Re: Manuel Gottsching E2-E4 percussion sound

Re: Manuel Gottsching E2-E4 percussion sound