Why old machines??

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
clubbedtodeath
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Post by clubbedtodeath » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:16 am

hageir wrote:if you want a really good analog synth emulation, use a real analog synth.
If you had the real thing, it wouldn't be emulation any more... ;)

Sometimes, it's a matter of convenience. If I want a MiniMoog-sounding lead in a track, the easiest thing for me to do is pull up Glen Stegner's rather excellent (and free) MiniMogue VST -- it does the job.

It's not a real MiniMoog of course, but for my purposes it'll do until I get my hands on a Voyager Old School.

Lastly, while emulation of older equipment is handy, it cannot and will not ever be the sole goal of equipment manufacturers. Why's that? Well, were that the case, technological development (and to some extent music too) would be frozen in time, and not progress: clearly unacceptable. Even in the virtual analogue market, features have been added that could not on their VCO counterparts -- decent FM, for example.

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Post by Shleed » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:25 pm

They may try to sound like a certain synth, but their extra features make them unique softsynths in their own right. Like the ARP 2600V for example, probably doesn't sound even close to a real ARP 2600, but it sounds gorgeous regardless and the extra features make it a powerful softsynth.

While I like the sound of old analogues, I wouldn't really buy one due to reliability problems. I would be too paranoid sending one away offshore to get it serviced, and I would be afraid to use it much due to some irrational fear of it blowing up. Heh. :roll:
Besides, I'm pretty much happy with the synths I have now at the moment; no signs of GAS... yet.

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Post by Yoozer » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:36 pm

Shleed wrote:probably doesn't sound even close to a real ARP 2600
Other people's ears, but still an enlightening article.
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Post by Phollop Willing PA » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:47 pm

Yoozer wrote:
Shleed wrote:probably doesn't sound even close to a real ARP 2600
Other people's ears, but still an enlightening article.
It doesn't. I did a side by side comparison with a couple of Arp 2600s and the the v version. They sound like different synths altogether.

Nice article btw.
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Post by Box » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:31 pm

They have more experience. :wink:
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Post by Don Solaris » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:12 pm

Syn303 wrote:This is not exactly quite right... Modern gear can sound just as good
Yeah sure it can. Now take this Moog bass and build me one on your favorite soft / VA synth. Then, give me your account number and i will transfer $1000 on it. Because you just saved me about $2000. Thanks in advance!

Syn303 wrote: Roland's XP-Series/Fantoms have a parameter called analogue feel where it emulates the old oscillator drift scenario which are commonly associated with those old wooden boxes full of circuits which become dodgy after a long time.
Wow. Stunning! I think i will sell all my vintage garbage and get myself a Fantom. Because it is as simple as that - add 'analogue feel' - and you will suddenly start to sound like those old boxes.

For your information, "Analogue Feel" parameter exist for 18 years. It was introduced in D-70, long before Fantoms and XPs. There is nothing magical in it. Just standard DIGITIAL pitch drift, which is a completely different thing than a VCO based drift.

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Post by CS_TBL » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:43 pm

I shall try.. :P
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Post by CS_TBL » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:12 pm

tryout #1

It's hard to hear details within that tune, are ghost notes part of the moog? Or is one of them ppl a bass guitarist playing along the same notes?

In this case it's like me making a 6-op FM8 piano and ask someone else to recreate it from hearing alone, without me saying anything about the number of carriers etc. So, if you know any details about the sound (what are the oscs supposed to be like? etc.)

With more details I could probably get closer alright..

oh, the synth used is FM8, obviously..
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Post by hageir » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:02 am

Phollop Willing PA wrote:I did a side by side comparison with a couple of Arp 2600s and the the v version. They sound like different synths altogether.
then there's that, why couldn't they just make that 2600V a NEW synth? instead of a "remake/emulator"?

it's like that new Miami Vice movie!
It was JUST one of those action movies, because it didn't have anything in common with the original, other than the name and the names of the characters!
know what I'm saying?
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Post by indegruv » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:23 pm

I love the old music and old sounds of that era and don't like much in the way of new music, and "new" sounds (or really, lack thereof.) Old sounds and gear has character all it's own, a breath of life to it. And i like using the tools that others in the trade before me have used, and rehashing my interpretations with them.

Not a flame shot just the reality of my interests. Simple yet effective is how i like everything. Today's marketing seems to be "cram it full of c**p and make it expensive!" and i just don't want to buy into that. Nor do i buy into the software deal either.

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Post by OriginalJambo » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:27 am

For me it's a matter of convenience as well as sound. There are drawbacks to hardware - space constraints, powering it all, audio cables, MIDI cables, CV, reliability and maintenance issues.

However there are many advantages too - it's much more engaging to be able to twiddle knobs and make sounds whilst not having to stare at your computer screen with a mouse in hand or map MIDI controllers just to get results, which IMO is really no fun! Plus if all the synthesising is done in hardware you can really go crazy with track counts and VST plug-in effects on your DAW. And finally hardware never goes out of date or crashes - okay it might die completely but at least you know where you stand and probably have a faint clue as to what's went wrong!

Finally a point that really needs to be make more often is a lot of software and modern synth gear is really, really powerful and flexible - much more so than even the most revered hardware synths - but simplicity is sometimes king and having too much choice can really make your head spin. Do you always need a 32-band equalizer with adjustable Q when a 3-band fixed EQ will do? Are 128 stage envelopes always better than the humble ADSR? It's all about what the application is and immediacy and approachability should never be underestimated.

Ultimately for me it's really a hardware over software thing and since old synths sound great and for the most part are still more affordable (hard to believe I know!) than more modern gear it must make sense for a lot of people.

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