Saw Rush last night... and a Little Phatty

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Re: Saw Rush last night... and a Little Phatty

Post by Joey » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:26 pm

Synthaholic wrote:
shaft9000 wrote:maybe i'm confused, but if the LP was being used for leads then how would you be able to compare it's bottom end to another synth that isn't even there?
He used the Minimoog in the original (studio) versions of those songs, and it had a meaty bottom end on it, that the LP lacked in the concert.
have you ever thought it could be that studio settings and live settings sound different?

I mean, seriously.

comparing a produced studio sound that was most likely run through an amp and then put through analog compressors and eq's and s**t to a live performance?

that has to be the dumbest thing i've ever heard

things ALWAYS sound different live

if you could produce a video or somethign that shows the minimoog being used live and being obviously fatter, then we've got some concrete evidence of just how much fatter it is, but your comparison has no basis otherwise
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Post by Synthaholic » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:37 pm

It was just an observation, and probably due to the sound being programmed differently on the LP than the original Minimoog sound.

If it were me, I would have tried to get the sound as close as possible to the original, but I'm not Geddy, and he may have had a reason to make it sound like he did, maybe to make it cut through better in a live situation.

But, if I ever manage to get a LP and Mini D side by side (probably not in this lifetime), I'll see how close I can get them to sound like the original "Tom Sawyer" solo.
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Post by Joey » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:41 pm

Synthaholic wrote:It was just an observation, and probably due to the sound being programmed differently on the LP than the original Minimoog sound.

If it were me, I would have tried to get the sound as close as possible to the original, but I'm not Geddy, and he may have had a reason to make it sound like he did, maybe to make it cut through better in a live situation.

But, if I ever manage to get a LP and Mini D side by side (probably not in this lifetime), I'll see how close I can get them to sound like the original "Tom Sawyer" solo.
When I had my voyager, I took it to my friends studio and we ABd it with his model D,

they were pretty close, they have different overall tonalities, and the D's output goes louder, but at the same volume they had no noticeable differences in low end

I believe the phatty uses the same oscs and filter as the voyager...

which would lead me to believe it would be the same, plus the phatty also has that nasty filter overdrive that works to its advantage
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Post by OriginalJambo » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:40 pm

Don't know about the Mini but the LP is killer for bass IMO. Round, full and just downright awesome.

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Post by aXL » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:38 pm

Saw them in Oslo last October. Super-tight and very funny on stage, they know how to put on a good show.

With regards to Geddy's use of synths (and recent lack thereof) I concur with ronP. Moving to a PeW-like territory synth-wise would have been beneficial for them. Their sound has evolved into a very old-guy-rock-esque territory as far as Lifeson's muddy sound and gratuitous overdubbing is concerned, whereas the core of the sound, as it has been since 2112, has been Geddy's basslines and Lifeson's crunchy but melodic guitar work.

They need to clean up Lifeson's sound, use a less overdubbed guitar sound and stop being afraid of using synths and keyboards. Hearing and seeing them play things like "Circumstances", "Natural Science" and "The Spirit of Radio" cemented this in my mind. And I don't think it's just me. S&A is a good album with a lot of strong songwriting, but there is something about the production and the mind-boggling use of overdubs that really rubs me wrong there.

Not that they should release "Permanent Waves II" or anything, but if they have been through the roots check with T4E, Vapor Trails and S&A, perhaps it's time time to gradually incorporate synths again, like last time? Discreetly, of course, letting Snakes & Arrows act like a 21st century 2112. No?
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Re: Saw Rush last night... and a Little Phatty

Post by meatballfulton » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:21 pm

Synthaholic wrote:[He used the Minimoog in the original (studio) versions of those songs, and it had a meaty bottom end on it, that the LP lacked in the concert.
Comparing a sound you're recalling from a record to a sound at a concert is a lost cause. Many studies have shown that our memory for sounds is actually very poor, not to mention all the other variables involved.
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Post by Jack Spider » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:41 pm

Without wanting to derail this into a Mini vs LP debate, I can see where Synthaholic is coming from. If you listen to the lead on 'Subdivisions' on the recent 'Snakes & Arrows Live' album, which was played on the LP and compare it to Geddy's Minimoog leads on the 'Exit Stage Left' album (which was also live), the Mini leads have more body.

BUT... this is all down to the patches programmed in, rather than the synths. The patch that Geddy is currently using for Subdivisions is more 'nasal' and consequently more cutting-sounding. It's a completely different-sounding patch to his Mini original and not a product of a shortfall of output on the LP. That said, he's Geddy Lee and he can play whatever sound he likes! :lol:

I programmed a similar lead to Subdivisions when I had my Mini and successfully replicated it on the Little Phatty, which replaced it. The differences between many of my patches were negligable, given that the Mini patch lost an osc to vibrato duties.

Here's my Mini patch (with a little reverb):

http://media.putfile.com/Subdivisions-Lead

Here is a patch which evolved from my programming the above into the Little Phatty - I'd made a couple of changes to soften the attack in the below example, but the feeling is still there:

http://media.putfile.com/Little-Phatty-Lead

And to echo the comments of some of the others - I really wish they'd do another synth-heavy album, of the ilk from the Permanent Waves/Moving Pictures/Signals era. Given how well those songs go down live, I reckon it would be received well by the non-synthheads.

I last saw them in 2003 on the R30 tour and it was an absolutely fantastic concert. I just missed out on tickets this time around.
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Post by Synthaholic » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:16 pm

Thanks for all the insights... now I want a Moog. ;) Time to steer clear of this thread for a week or so. ;)
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Post by CZ Rider » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:17 pm

Rush will be on the Colbert Report tonight (Wed. July16) on Comedy Central, performing Tom Sawyer.
Too bad I don't get that channel. :(

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Post by ficusrock » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:20 am

CZ Rider wrote:Rush will be on the Colbert Report tonight (Wed. July16) on Comedy Central, performing Tom Sawyer.
Too bad I don't get that channel. :(
Anyone else see it? I thought it was great! I'm usually not impressed by televised performances.

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Post by langmick » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:21 pm

V301H wrote: Not to take anything away from Geddy as he is a very talented musician, but apparently he isn't quite the keyboard virtuoso some of us may have thought he was.
I have never thought of him as being "good" at the keyed instruments.

But on the bass, his chops and feel are killer.

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Post by Jack Spider » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:44 pm

Rush's performance can be seen here.

http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/index.jhtml
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Post by redchapterjubilee » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:50 pm

I just watched it. I don't really like that tone he's using for the solo. It's got too much attack for me, not smooth. But that's just me. I know the LP can sound better than that.
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Post by ronP » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:07 pm

Jack Spider wrote:Rush's performance can be seen here.

http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/index.jhtml
.


WoW! There is a space, a silence, surrounding each note of Geddy's LP solo; the tone is very muted, very mellow, quiet, and clean; quite cool!

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