My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by Joey » Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:48 pm

it can't sound less analog, because it is analog, what you are hearing is an analog sound

(i know someone is going to want to pick a fight with this comment, please do :))
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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:11 am

Joey wrote:it can't sound less analog, because it is analog, what you are hearing is an analog sound

(i know someone is going to want to pick a fight with this comment, please do :))
And you knew it would be me. : )

As everyone always shouts, the characteristic quality that makes analog desirable is subtle. That subtlety is easily obscured or erased by effects like chorus.
Of course, you would still have the aspect of the analog sound that is related to function, but function-related aspects of analog sound are far more easily emulated with non-analog than sound quality of analog is.
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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:14 am

Box wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote: I find that once you turn on the chorus it sounds considerably less analog.
I've noticed that the chorus rids some of the "buzziness", but it thickens the sound like corn starch thickens stew (simile for the day! :P). Wouldn't say it makes it less analogue, just smoother and more polished.
Well, that was supposedly the point of the chorus on 80s Roland boards... but the JX doesn't NEED that thickening, as it has two oscillators. It is a nice flavoring, sure... but it's a nice flavoring on any synthesizer that you want to sound like a chorused synthesizer, and any synthesizer with chorus, like the JX3P sounds more like the chorus when it is on, than it does the synth.

Putting chorus on analog is like slathering a fine piece of meat with barbeque sauce. The sauce may be fantastic, and the flavor of the meat might compliment it, but in the end, you're really just tasting the sauce. (Oppositional Simile for the day!)
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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by Box » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:13 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:Well, that was supposedly the point of the chorus on 80s Roland boards... but the JX doesn't NEED that thickening, as it has two oscillators. It is a nice flavoring, sure... but it's a nice flavoring on any synthesizer that you want to sound like a chorused synthesizer, and any synthesizer with chorus, like the JX3P sounds more like the chorus when it is on, than it does the synth.
Not all the time. Sometimes the chorus just makes the sound fuller without altering the sound much at all, and then sometimes the chorus changes the sound completely. Also, how can the chorus make it less analogue when the chorus itself is analogue? Chorus is what sets Roland apart from the rest of the crowd; even the Jupiter-8 wouldn't be itself without it's chorus (if chorus is overkill on any Roland this is the one). But as long as the end sound is good who cares if it was chorused, reverbed, delayed, etc... and the sound generator was a Jupiter-8 or a Poly-800? I for one love the sonic character that chorus adds to the sound, why I'm such a fan of Roland. I agree that sometimes a particular sound doesn't need chorus, so I won't add it. Then sometimes it completes the sound and brings it to perfection. I'm starting to lean towards a Jupiter-6 instead of an OB-Xa actually...
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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:35 am

Box wrote: Not all the time. Sometimes the chorus just makes the sound fuller without altering the sound much at all, and then sometimes the chorus changes the sound completely. Also, how can the chorus make it less analogue when the chorus itself is analogue? Chorus is what sets Roland apart from the rest of the crowd; even the Jupiter-8 wouldn't be itself without it's chorus (if chorus is overkill on any Roland this is the one). But as long as the end sound is good who cares if it was chorused, reverbed, delayed, etc...
Chorus never avoids cloaking analog timbral character. Does that mean the overall patch is worthless? No. I'm just saying you can put anything through a chorus. I guarantee that your ability to discern between a great software synth and an analog synth is severely damaged when you're hearing them both through the same chorus.
If you put anything through an analog chorus, you hear the analog chorus. If you're excited about analog chorus, that's awesome, but that's not the same thing as an analog synth. It isn't just that it is "analog," it's that the character of the synthesizer's sound is analog. You can put a DX7 through analog chorus, and it's going to sound "analog" but only in the sense that that's what analog chorus sounds like. If you delight in the subtle character of analog synthesizers, then you shouldn't want to cloak that character with an effect that obscures it.
If you're looking for a 1980s poly sound, then go for it... but you're not going to need analog to pull that off.
I expected the "end argument" argument to arise. Everyone always gets around to "nothing really matters if the music is good." If that is true, there is no point in anyone collecting anything, anyone favoring any particular instrument, anyone discerning the difference between a seasoned audio studio, and a 13 year old kid with a computer. The truth of the matter is, all synths, digital or analog, or whatever, are capable of great "end sounds," so why even spend money on any expensive synth ever? It's because you specifically desire a certain TYPE of end sound. If you don't, then I would strongly urge you to stop wasting your money on analog.

The JX, chorus-free, has a great analog sound... more analog-sounding than most other DCO synths. It doesn't need chorus to sound full, analog, or good! That's all I'm saying! :)
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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by Joey » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:44 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Joey wrote:it can't sound less analog, because it is analog, what you are hearing is an analog sound

(i know someone is going to want to pick a fight with this comment, please do :))
And you knew it would be me. : )

As everyone always shouts, the characteristic quality that makes analog desirable is subtle. That subtlety is easily obscured or erased by effects like chorus.
Of course, you would still have the aspect of the analog sound that is related to function, but function-related aspects of analog sound are far more easily emulated with non-analog than sound quality of analog is.
well i meant to say its an analog signal path (save the env's)

so its an analog sound, period.

lol
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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by braincandy » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:46 am

Box, the Jupiter-8 doesn't have an onboard chorus effect. Maybe you were referring to the Juno-60, as it's known for it's chorus effect?
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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by Box » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:21 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote: You can put a DX7 through analog chorus, and it's going to sound "analog" but only in the sense that that's what analog chorus sounds like.
It's because you specifically desire a certain TYPE of end sound. If you don't, then I would strongly urge you to stop wasting your money on analog.

The JX, chorus-free, has a great analog sound... more analog-sounding than most other DCO synths. It doesn't need chorus to sound full, analog, or good! That's all I'm saying! :)
Digital sounds digital no matter what you run it through. Why I couldn't stand the Ion, never escaped "VA" sound. Of course you wouldn't have to run an OB-X or a MiniMoog through chorus, they have a natural thickness to the sound. And I totally agree that the JX's chorus free have a great analogue tone. I only use chorus to give it that instant 80's sound.

Funny, could've swore that the Jupiter had chorus. A lot of the songs that it's in it sounds chorused.
Last edited by Box on Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by Box » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:15 am

Here's a demo I just whipped up. A few are presets, some I've programmed. Have a tad bit of reverb or delay on some of them. Enjoy:
JX-3P Demo
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Post by crystalmsc » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:17 am

Box wrote:I'm officially in LOVE WITH ROLAND!!!
congrats for the jx synth addition, it also did the same here :)
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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by Analogue Crazy » Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:28 am

Congrats on the JX-3P. Iv used a Juno-6 and 60, Poly-800, Poly-61 and the JX-3P is my favorite DCO synth out of what iv used. I hardly ever used its chorus effect, i loved the raw DCO sound it gives unchorused. I great little synth with bags of character.
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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by Bitexion » Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:36 am

The Elka Synthex was the first accessible polysynth with built-in chorus, it was more or less avoided and slaughtered by enthusiasts because they figured chorus effect was cheating to get a better sound. On demonstrations at sound fairs, they'd hop over and turn off the chorus immediately and say "see, my Prophet-5 oscillators are much fatter" *moving on*

Sure, the CS80 had chorus, and also all the string synths of the 70's, but the synthex was the first REAL synth that anyone could afford to buy, compared to the CS80 that was only available for studio musicians and VERY rich people.

This was one of the main points as to why it sold so bad that it went out of production very quickly, only to be one of the most coveted synths after Jarre and Stevie Wonder started using them heavily.

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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by OMNI26 » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:42 am

nigel wrote:Aww... man, now I want one..
I have a JX-3P with PG-200 that I am preparing to sell if anyone is interested. It has a few dead keys, but I will be fixing those in the next day or two if I can spare the time to do so....been selling a lot of gear lately and this one has been at the bottom of the pile & I haven't gotten around to it yet. I was planning on just throwing it up on eBay, but could just as easily sell it to a fellow VSE'er here.

BTW, I guess this is the wrong forum for this post - sorry mods - but it naturally fit in the thread, so please forgive me! :)

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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by OMNI26 » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:48 am

BTW, according to my buddy Paul at SynthTech (former Curtis CEM chip source), the CEM chips in the JX-3P (CEM3340's, 3360's, and 3372's) if pulled out and sold separately are worth more than $1,000! Good deal considering the current prices of JX-3P's, but seems like a shame to trash a classic like the JX-3P just to harvest the chips.

Also, he did tell me that the JX-3P is the last "cheap" synth that is a source for harvesting CEM chips out there. I suppose it is conceivable that one synth should die so that many others (i.e. Curtis-based "high end" synths like the Prophet-5, etc.) can live on!

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Re: My "New" Toy Is Here! =)

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:35 pm

OMNI26 wrote:BTW, according to my buddy Paul at SynthTech (former Curtis CEM chip source), the CEM chips in the JX-3P (CEM3340's, 3360's, and 3372's) if pulled out and sold separately are worth more than $1,000! Good deal considering the current prices of JX-3P's, but seems like a shame to trash a classic like the JX-3P just to harvest the chips.

Also, he did tell me that the JX-3P is the last "cheap" synth that is a source for harvesting CEM chips out there. I suppose it is conceivable that one synth should die so that many others (i.e. Curtis-based "high end" synths like the Prophet-5, etc.) can live on!
Ha ha, this is a terrible thing to tell me! I like my JX3P, but with prices like that, I could buy something I'd like better.
It'd be hilarious if suddenly the JX3P leapt up to unaffordable prices as a result of this... just imagine the "JX3P for $2500? WTF???" threads. :wink:
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