Is a Yamaha Tyros a synthesizer?

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stikygum
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Re: Is a Yamaha Tyros a synthesizer?

Post by stikygum » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:32 am

A rompler to me is not a true synthesizer. It is a synthesizer though, just not a true through and through synth. Of course no one really cares but purists, since a synth is a synth. Unless of course you are here at VS :D
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Re: Is a Yamaha Tyros a synthesizer?

Post by Big Gnome » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:24 am

stikygum wrote:I think we need to distinguish between true synths using basic waveforms as the base and synths using predetermined sampled waveforms (basically anything not using sampled sounds).

But then you look at hybrid synthesis like Waldorf Microwave and Ensoniq Transwaves, it starts to blur. Still these synths are not true synths IMO. They're hybrids and that's why they are so unique.
Why are romplers and wavetable synths not "real" synthesizers? Is it because they use PCM audio in place of dynamically generated waveforms? The DX7 use a sample for its sine waves--is it a "real" synthesizer? If so, is the SY99, which tacks samples onto a 6-op FM engine, a synthesizer? Is only half of the Evolver "real"?
Is it because they have other waveforms besides the standard saw/pulse/triangle/sine? In that case, is the Minimoog a synthesizer, what with that shark fin wave thing no one seems to have a proper name for, or the JP-80x0 with its supersaw, feedback wave, foldback'ed triangle wave and so forth?
Surely it can't be a question of editabilty--most romplers and especially wavetable synths provide a much finer degree of control over a patch's components than any string machine or analog preset synth.
The distinction seems perfectly arbitrary to me...
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Re: Is a Yamaha Tyros a synthesizer?

Post by Megakazbek » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:11 pm

There is no logical reason not to consider ROMplers as synthesizers. They are electronic musical instruments which allow to create infinite variety of sounds, so what else is needed for something to be counted as synthesizer?
I don't understand all that "true" vs "not true" synths thing. I think the question "how it works" doesn't matter at all in this argument, and the main question is "what it can do". And from this point of view, ROMplers provide just as much ways of sound creation and experimentation as "conventional" synthesizers.

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Re: Is a Yamaha Tyros a synthesizer?

Post by memedesigner » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:28 pm

Well, Fantom has the thing I was hoping to be in Wavestation in 1991 - but wasnt there, at least in any useable form - which is to have your own custom waveforms treated similarly to the ROM waveforms. The sampling function is that well integrated into Fantom.

Another synth goodie in Fantom is the extensive modulation matrix. Plus filters that are plentiful and weird, in a good way. And digital I/O.

This makes Fantom more capable synth in my book than Wavestation.

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Re: Is a Yamaha Tyros a synthesizer?

Post by wikter » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:03 pm

Analog Synthesizer.
Digital Synthesizer.
Synthesized Sound Player.
Some keyboards allow to play synthesized sounds while not being synthesizers.
A synthesizer allows to synthesize: sounds, alloys, plastics. A machine that creates pieces of plastic doesn't synthesize plastic, just uses it. A rompler reads that sound but still allows to manipulate some sample parameters (start point, tune, volume). The fact that the sound is not 'created' by an algorithm or vco makes no diference aslong as it allows to manipulate and synthesize new sounds.
Anyway, the word synthesizer is appliable to any machine that synthesizes, but the ones we love use to be those fully editable synthesizers.
And yes, a Microwave is one of the most interesting synths, ask Waldorf Music.

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Re: Is a Yamaha Tyros a synthesizer?

Post by Psy_Free » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:28 pm

wikter wrote:Analog Synthesizer.
Digital Synthesizer.
Synthesized Sound Player.
Some keyboards allow to play synthesized sounds while not being synthesizers.
A synthesizer allows to synthesize: sounds, alloys, plastics. A machine that creates pieces of plastic doesn't synthesize plastic, just uses it. A rompler reads that sound but still allows to manipulate some sample parameters (start point, tune, volume). The fact that the sound is not 'created' by an algorithm or vco makes no diference aslong as it allows to manipulate and synthesize new sounds.
Anyway, the word synthesizer is appliable to any machine that synthesizes, but the ones we love use to be those fully editable synthesizers.
And yes, a Microwave is one of the most interesting synths, ask Waldorf Music.
I think after 9 years the OP probably figured it out.
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Re: Is a Yamaha Tyros a synthesizer?

Post by hogberto » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:21 pm

Funny old thread.

My first ever electronic keyboard, given to me when I was about 14, was a Farfisa Bravo. It was a little home organ with rocker voice selectors for brass, flute etc. and pre-programmed rhythms (bossa nova, march, waltz etc.), built in speaker and so on.

I had a lot of fun with that keyboard but to me it was never a synthesizer.

Then I bought Peter Forrest's A-Z of Analogue Synthesizers.

And bugger me if the Bravo wasn't in it.

If only I'd known back then that I was playing an analogue synth ... :shock:
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Re: Is a Yamaha Tyros a synthesizer?

Post by gs » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:46 pm

stikygum wrote:A rompler to me is not a true synthesizer. It is a synthesizer though, just not a true through and through synth. Of course no one really cares but purists, since a synth is a synth. Unless of course you are here at VS :D
I think your comment has hit the nail on the head.

It's just a matter of complexity and development, and whether the original (simple) definition of the word "synthesizer" still applies to these developments.

Back in 1973, it was pretty easy to define a synthesizer, because there were so few of them about, and they all pretty much worked the same way (analog electronics), and very few (if any) had additional features like arpeggiators, sequencers, etc.

Once various forms of digital synthesis generation came onto the scene (as well as synth add-ons like arpeggiators and sequencers), the issue became more complicated. Once the M1 arrived on the scene, the word "Workstation" was devised to separate this particular machine from all the others. It was still a digital synthesizer with add-ons... but its intended "use" (i.e. musicians creating whole compositions on them) is what gave the impetus for the new term definition.

With "Arrangers", we just move one more step in this direction.
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Re: Is a Yamaha Tyros a synthesizer?

Post by desmond » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:05 pm

When the "rompler" term was first defined, as distint from a synth, was really for what should have been called sound modules (a box of sounds you couldn't really change that much), but rompler was catchier (like a sampler, as it plays samples, but read-only, you can't sample your own sounds).

So things like the EMU Proteus, and the Roland U110 were examples of the "classic" romplers.

When the water got muddied was that companies kept building ever increasingly complex synthesis engines onto the sample playback sound modules - so something like an XV-5080 is kind of not exactly a full synth (as it's waveforms are always samples), but not exactly a classic rompler (as it has a good synth engine).

We *clearly* need a third term to cover digital synthesisers with sample playback oscillators but a good synth engine.

Some sugggestions, which are *totally* going to take off:
- Synthpler
- Samplesizer
- ROMesizer

I do think the "rompler" term is a bit abused in usage, these days, as it doesn't really mean what it originally meant (that you were basically stuck with the onboard sounds, and couldn't make your own, or change them much.)

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