How have Arturia Origin sales been?

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Blue Monster 65
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by Blue Monster 65 » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:40 pm

Played it; liked it; wouldn't mind having one in the grand scheme of things, regardless of what anyone (user or net reader/non-user) has said, though there are other things more pressing and interesting to me.

Don't like the griping and attempted insults going on here.

If you like it, great - go play and enjoy your instrument. If you don't, great, but you don't have to try to convince those who do that it really sucks and they're idiots for doing so.

Thank you, deb76, for sharing your music with us.

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by sensorium » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:17 pm

nvbrkr,

You hit the nail on the head in outlining the point I'm attempting to get across. It has nothing to do with the structure. The argument here are differences in the SOUND (when all else is equal).

Blue Monster,

Nobody's trying to convince anyone that something sucks. This is a discussion about what the instrument IS. How it works. This is a synth discussion forum. If people are not allowed to debate the capabilities/technology behind a synth here, where should we go?

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by Blue Monster 65 » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:07 pm

sensorium wrote:Blue Monster,

Nobody's trying to convince anyone that something sucks. This is a discussion about what the instrument IS. How it works. This is a synth discussion forum. If people are not allowed to debate the capabilities/technology behind a synth here, where should we go?
I'd say it's gone way beyond that, but that's pretty typical for this site (and others). It began as that and has devolved into petty sniping.

That said, if you're truly discussing the aspects of the instrument's sound, wouldn't this be wholly subjective? Even comparing like instruments under controlled situations is suspect at best: If one is not doing a blind comparison with all aspects controlled by another, then one's personal opinions come into play even more.

(Full disclosure: I spent years reviewing instruments for publication and to this day still have clients that need/wish me to compare and contrast as above. It gets tiring! I'm not trying to impress; I'm saying I have more than passing experience with this process.)

Does one Minimoog sound EXACTLY like another? I would argue possibly not. They'll be similar and were definitely made to sound alike, but due to factors beyond the user's control, each instrument may or will have differences in their structure that will affect it differently than the other. Do you follow?

As far as VSTs go, providing you run the same program (uninstalling and re-installing, perhaps?) on the same machine, then each instance should sound exactly like the other (all other factors remaining the same).

That said, would it not make sense that since the VSTs and the Origin differ in playback architecture (the systems they run on) that they would sound not only similar but also different? As has been noted, dedicated DSPs are differents from the processors in a computer. The basic code of the instruments (Jupiter 8V, etc.) are the same, but with the architecture of the Origin being different than that of a computer, would that not have some bearing upon the sound? I think it would.

As for how it works, the posters seem to be working around each other; some quoting manufacturer's specs and releases and others quoting various reviewers. I would suggest that, for sake of clarification, the manufacturer's specs (or just the site) be posted at the top of the thread and that each poster describe how they listened to and played the instrument to arrive at their opinion.

For my purposes, I think the Origin sounds fine, though it is too expensive for my liking. I have played it in a sales floor sound room and also in a crowded convention. Both times were through fairly standard 2-way powered monitors. The first time I used an M-Audio controller keyboard and the second was with the Analog factory keyboard. The only sound-shaping controls I used were the onboard ones. I will admit I have not spent enough time with it to get deeply into the sound shaping aspects, but what I did fiddle with I found fairly simple and immediate. My only real drawback remains the price, but that comes from instruments being a (limited time) hobby these days and not a source of income or constant obsession (no insult intended).

I hope this clarifies my position to your liking.

Scott
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by deb76 » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:41 pm

nvbrkr wrote :
Off Topic
Perhaps you would like to prove your point by playing something on the aforementioned Minimoog preset(s) on the Origin and the same thing on the plug-in version, then upload those both for us to compare?
Already, have you listened to the TestOrigin
I had done after receiving the Origin? I had posted quite early in the topic (page 1). Somebody spoke while anyway, I do not propose a discussion in a vacuum and from sensations, but felt with sound samples, right?
And it was on this basis that I wanted the discussion. Starting from real sounds and not what sounds could be.

Just little descriptif : The first sound from the single note changes DO2 maintained at the height with small variations in the Joystick, it is also very finely on the filter with small glissendos. The overall tempo was set at 10 bpm. Otherwise, a sequence 120. This adjustment of the tempo is very useful.
The second is in the same lineage. The third is a little more dirty, more dirty.
The third is generated from a MIDI sequence, I played with the joystick and the filter parameters.

Then for the 3rd and 4th sounds, I'm not sure whether you like it. This is done again from the DO2 kept notes on the keyboard and drone, and I played on the joystick to get a kind of electronic voice against evolving. The 4th is more digital in its report, that approach what I want to find


From this test, and on a similar subject and where the exchange may be calmer, more friendly, in a french
forum a member who has all the vst Arturia stated:
Frankly, it does! It seems to me that the dynamics is indeed better than the apps. And the grave on the first sound is impressive (I do not have this with the freeware). I thought the criticisms unconditional exclusively found on the Internet is advertising, is due to the runaway hit of the buyers of the syndrome described by Meka (I have big synth legend into a machine and I do what I want, I am the master of the world), but of course like that, I feel that the machine is what they said ...
nvbrkr wrote :
Off Topic
So his stand is clearly that the Origin's sound quality is far superior regardless of the quality of the D/A -conversion involved in the process. I find this hard to believe myself.
Yes, I reassert. And I repeat, go try it out, listen to what comes out of the direct and not as in my example, the sound of the Origin, which is converted by a sound card RME Fireface 800 - that you will agree is a good sound card. The problem is that there is still a loss of sound and I am not talking about the deterioration due to MP3. So, go listen to what the real origin is capable of. Moreover, with a VST Arturia or another, can you get bass, but the sound quality, finesse, other stamps, quoted by the member french Burnie?

nvbrkr wrote :
Off Topic
So despite the "IRCAM" connection, this is a typical example of what many people posting on this board would see as a very naive way to see the hardware / software division.
Take the time to read my Chronicles of the Mao and
NewChronicles (Including an album of Bernard Reed achieved mainly with the Moog Modular V2), and you will see that I am an ardent supporter of VST virtual synths like Arturia but also the EMS de Avs Ludwigh Rehberg, emulation Ems Synthi Aks. Synth I owned for 15 years but I prefer the VST because it allows me to do more things in music. I have realised
this music with EMS Avs, Reaktor, Evolver, Yamaha SY99, and artificial voices.
So, I know, I am the really primary man. I am unable to hold a discussion, to present arguments suitable ... Thank you the compliment, I do not know too naive.
Off Topic
But your arguments in this thread aren't really that convincing,
It's the same for me. Said conclusively that the Origin is not a synthesizer but with a box of Vst is not too arguments.
Off Topic
Deb76 hasn't on his own behalf taken part in the DSP / shared processor debate
Exact. Why ? The technical specifications do not interest me. What interests me is what sort of machine is it will allow me to make good music?
I did not buy the Origin in relation to Vst Arturia (I laugh) and have been recoded and located in a different architecture, but for what Origin can do for his sonorities, its stamps its modulation possibilities that are complex and will help me for experimental music that I do.
I used the example above the Minimoog, but I'm not fan, I much prefer the Moog Modular V2, Prophet VS and the Arp 2600. The CS80 m' indiffère (indifferent), and the Jupiter 8, I like it just for the Galaxy module. Il is so sweety.
I am only a user, warned, however, but I do not care to know what's inside. Regarding the technique, the friend with whom I play in my Hplank duo, is an engineer at IBM. When I have a problem I see with him. I have a very functioning Ircamien I work in an interdisciplinary framework. This does not mean, however, that I am ignorant in art. But what interests me is to make music with these instruments that are for me a new lutherie. I mentioned the music of renowned IRCAM, the 4X, with the Origin, I found in a lower power, the same spirit.
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by OriginalJambo » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:31 pm

Blue Monster 65 wrote:I'd say it's gone way beyond that, but that's pretty typical for this site (and others). It began as that and has devolved into petty sniping.
It's just a typical case of interpretation. To me it looked like the differences in sound (and associated benefits) were being questioned by Sensorium. Others obviously took it another way, possibly by his use of the word "computer".
That said, if you're truly discussing the aspects of the instrument's sound, wouldn't this be wholly subjective? Even comparing like instruments under controlled situations is suspect at best: If one is not doing a blind comparison with all aspects controlled by another, then one's personal opinions come into play even more.
This is an internet forum and it's my opinion that the Origin isn't likely to sound much different from Arturia's VSTs, especially since they pride themselves on their work. Why fix it if it ain't broke?
Does one Minimoog sound EXACTLY like another? I would argue possibly not.
Probably not given differences in components, tolerences, board revisions and if the units have been calibrated properly. Then again these variations may be very subtle. One of the reasons I bought a Little Phatty was that it was "close enough" to the sound of the Moogs of yesteryear.
They'll be similar and were definitely made to sound alike, but due to factors beyond the user's control, each instrument may or will have differences in their structure that will affect it differently than the other. Do you follow?
Exactly.
As far as VSTs go, providing you run the same program (uninstalling and re-installing, perhaps?) on the same machine, then each instance should sound exactly like the other (all other factors remaining the same).

That said, would it not make sense that since the VSTs and the Origin differ in playback architecture (the systems they run on) that they would sound not only similar but also different? As has been noted, dedicated DSPs are differents from the processors in a computer. The basic code of the instruments (Jupiter 8V, etc.) are the same, but with the architecture of the Origin being different than that of a computer, would that not have some bearing upon the sound? I think it would.
As I said before it's been done with both the M1 and Novation series of synth. The general consenous is that both of these soft synths sound very much like the originals, save for the sub-par D/A converters in the case of the M1. Don't you think that if Artuia spent so much time finetuing their emulation it might be feasible to keep as close as possible to this with the Origin?

Also look at a PS3/360 game - one uses the "Cell" processor which is a completely different architecture and a custom graphics card vs. a system built with more conventionall components. Yet when you play a game released for both it's often hard to tell the difference. See what I'm getting at? It's in Artuia's best interests to make the Origin perform up to the standards of their soft synths - unless of course you think there's a lot to improve on!
As for how it works, the posters seem to be working around each other; some quoting manufacturer's specs and releases and others quoting various reviewers. I would suggest that, for sake of clarification, the manufacturer's specs (or just the site) be posted at the top of the thread and that each poster describe how they listened to and played the instrument to arrive at their opinion.
This is a good point. I'm only saying that, in theory, there isn't likely to be a big difference in sound. This may not be true and it's spectulation but this is an internet form. Most of what's posted here is subjective anyway.
For my purposes, I think the Origin sounds fine, though it is too expensive for my liking. I have played it in a sales floor sound room and also in a crowded convention. Both times were through fairly standard 2-way powered monitors. The first time I used an M-Audio controller keyboard and the second was with the Analog factory keyboard. The only sound-shaping controls I used were the onboard ones. I will admit I have not spent enough time with it to get deeply into the sound shaping aspects, but what I did fiddle with I found fairly simple and immediate. My only real drawback remains the price, but that comes from instruments being a (limited time) hobby these days and not a source of income or constant obsession (no insult intended).
Again I'm not saying the Origin is either too expensive, not relevent or sounds terrible. I'm just hinting at what to expect. As I've stated in my previous post, there are some definite benefits of the Origin over the VST soft synths on paper.
I hope this clarifies my position to your liking.
Likewise. :thumbup:

As has already been stated before this is a discussion about what the Origin really is, not if it "sucks" or not. I think it's perfectly acceptable to debate this on the software section of a synthesiser forum. ;)
Off Topic
On a semi-related note I'm considering buying a ROMpler from the Big Three. Someone could come up to me and say "That's a waste of money. You'd be better off investing in a good DAW software and some top-end sampler/ROMpler plugins with gigabyte libraries. It'll be cheaper, more flexible and sound better."

You know what? I'd be inclined to agree with all those points. However working with hardware tends to inspire me and software generally does not, which is very important. Everybody is different and I understand and respect that.

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by Blue Monster 65 » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:28 am

OriginalJambo wrote:This is an internet forum and it's my opinion that the Origin isn't likely to sound much different from Arturia's VSTs, especially since they pride themselves on their work. Why fix it if it ain't broke?
Ummm ... so you're telling me your opinion based on your time spent playing it? If so, please post your dislikes and (if any) likes of the Origin itself.

If it's just opinion, please be aware they tend to carry more weight when they're based on experience. It is far more relevant to me reading Joey say he played the instrument for a few minutes at GC and decided he didn't feel it added anything more than their VSTs already did than to read a post referring only to what one has read on the net and nowhere else. In other words, even if this is an internet forum, knowing first hand what you're talking about would be helpful. That's where I'm coming from. I am highly unlikely to agree with deb76 that it's a terrific replacement for anything, but I do appreciate his position.

Frankly, I'm most interested in hearing what WDW has to say after he's spent more time with his.

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by Jack Spider » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:30 pm

Off Topic
OriginalJambo wrote:Also look at a PS3/360 game - one uses the "Cell" processor which is a completely different architecture and a custom graphics card vs. a system built with more conventionall components. Yet when you play a game released for both it's often hard to tell the difference. See what I'm getting at? It's in Artuia's best interests to make the Origin perform up to the standards of their soft synths - unless of course you think there's a lot to improve on!
I can tell you don't work in the industry, James. I'm not going into detail (NDA), but I can tell you that it's not just a case of porting code when dealing with cross-platform versions of the same game. There are always differences between platforms - content, responsiveness to controls and most commonly, graphical and frame rate, to name but a few. One thing is pretty consistent - when there is a gap between a title being released on one platform and another, the latter version will usually have additions made - things that the developer didn't have time to do with the original version, or at least any gameplay flaws of the original could be ironed-out.

Not the best of analogies, then. :wink:
All this is moot anyway - best left for folks who have actually played both to comment on, really.
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by tallowwaters » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:49 pm

23 wrote:
Now I'd stop short of saying
I don't think that will ever be an issue for you. :lol:
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by clubbedtodeath » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:05 pm

OriginalJambo wrote:
I hope this clarifies my position to your liking.
Likewise. :thumbup:
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by 23 » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:34 pm

tallowwaters wrote:
23 wrote:
Now I'd stop short of saying
I don't think that will ever be an issue for you. :lol:
HEY NOW, I take issue with that statement.
Allow me to expound on why........












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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by OriginalJambo » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:03 am

Jack Spider wrote:I can tell you don't work in the industry, James. I'm not going into detail (NDA), but I can tell you that it's not just a case of porting code when dealing with cross-platform versions of the same game. There are always differences between platforms - content, responsiveness to controls and most commonly, graphical and frame rate, to name but a few. One thing is pretty consistent - when there is a gap between a title being released on one platform and another, the latter version will usually have additions made - things that the developer didn't have time to do with the original version, or at least any gameplay flaws of the original could be ironed-out.

Not the best of analogies, then. :wink:
This is my point - a lot of work obviously goes into making sure the game runs well and plays identically on each platform, but it's often hard to tell this with the end result. Therefore I think it's perfectly feasible to expect Artuia to treat their software the same way - making sure the Origin performs up to the standards of their soft synths. It'd certainly be even more work rewriting every module from the ground-up surely. Of course it's just theory but it kind makes sense to me.

As for this thread, I'll leave it be from now on as I've said my piece, although I really don't understand why some people see these debates and discussions as always turning hostile when it sure seems civil enough to me. I'm sort of sick of saying this now but as an internet forum it's sort of part and parcel.

Now, that OT thread on hookers and blow is calling. :drunken:

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by Sexor » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:17 am

Wow, a big lot of grumpy people here!

Here's something ON TOPIC for once:

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by 23 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:52 am

Oddly enough, Thomann contradicts there own information....
weird.
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by Sexor » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:17 am

Yes, that is odd indeed.
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by cartesia » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:11 pm

that list probably changes when a single person buys 1 synthesiser, given that synthesisers dont have huge turnover.

As for the rest of this thread, there still doesn't seem to be a single direct comparison audio file for anyone to download.

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