How have Arturia Origin sales been?

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by 23 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:16 am

The Arturia Origin is nothing but a computer running Firmware.
That said, the Arturia Origin = Software.
That said, an argument that software sounds better then software when the software is firmware doesn't even begin to make any kind of logical sense really.
I mean either way, your still dealing with computers running software. (and from what I'm reading, it's like firmware is being said to be something other then a computer, running software, with it's own DACs, etc.....and that's just incorrect)

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by deb76 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:01 pm

Off Topic
The Arturia Origin is nothing but a computer running Firmware.
Well yes, why do not I have thought earlier, it's so obvious...
And it's the same for Clavia G2 Engine, that runs with software, the Moog Voyager that runs with Voyager's firmware, and my Yamaha EX5R and SY99...

Off Topic
That said, the Arturia Origin = Software.
Certainly. But, just a question, the software with its box, its knobs, buttons, the joystick is the new look of the software? We will have problems to download them in computers?
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by 23 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:17 pm

deb76 wrote:
Off Topic
The Arturia Origin is nothing but a computer running Firmware.
Well yes, why do not I have thought earlier, it's so obvious...
And it's the same for Clavia G2 Engine, that runs with software, the Moog Voyager that runs with Voyager's firmware, and my Yamaha EX5R and SY99...

Off Topic
That said, the Arturia Origin = Software.
Certainly. But, just a question, the software with its box, its knobs, buttons, the joystick is the new look of the software? We will have problems to download them in computers?
The controller aspect of the firmware has nothing to do with what is generating the sound.
The comment was that the Origin sounded better then the software, which as far as I know, Arturia's statements were that they ported the coding over for the Osc, Filters, EGs, etc. of their previously made VSTi's but enabled them to be assembled in a modular nature.
"The Origin's greatest feature attraction is its ability to combine modules culled from Arturia's virtual instruments for fresh sounds previously impossible to obtain from any single source." (granted that quote is taken from EM)

In any regard, given the controller aspect is a totally separate issue from the synth engine itself, if the driving force of the synth engine was pulled from the emulations Arturia had already developed, it's inherent that the thing ISN'T going to sound any better (or worst) then the software. How the parts can be assembled and interact was changed, but the end results those individual parts produced was kept the same. Thus, if anything, a "better"/"worst" sound can pretty much be traced to DAC differences between the Origin and what a user elected to use on their own PC, nothing more.

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by 23 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:23 pm

"We strove to put virtually all our synthesizer and TAE technology making know-how into one instrument.....
TAE is Arturia's outstanding technology dedicated to the digital reproduction of analog circuits used in vintage synthesizers.
When implemented in software code, TAE algorithms gurantee authentic emulation of hardware specifications. This is why the Origin hardware synthesizer and all of Arturia's software synthesizers offer an unparalleled sound quality."
-Arturia

There you go. Wasn't like they rewrote the sound generation for the Origin.

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by deb76 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:35 pm

Here is what was written in a french forum member Arturia :

There is a misunderstanding that persists on Origin, it is to believe that it is a "Virtual Analog" as the others. Either we have to ARTURIA not enough / well communicated, the very concept eludes you, is most likely a nice mixture of both.
ORIGIN is a synthesizer:
_ Digital
_ Modular
_ Polyphonic
It may be used to scroll through the presets, edit / save and torture in his own places users. Either.
You can also load a template (precise emulation of a particular synthesizer); currently only the Minimoog is integrated, but others arrive. Re-either.
But more importantly, it can build its own structures synthesizer modules derived from synths that you know all, with the joys and surprises of the wiring on the fly, without the clutter of a large modular analogue and polyphony! This is only my humble opinion the great strength of this machine.
If the user searches for a simple bank editable presets, there are probably more synths provided in number of presets for significantly cheaper, and quite rightly so.
But if the user does not feel locked into a fixed structure, and actually build one or more synthesizers in a few clicks according to his needs or desires, there is seemingly no equivalent in hardware (even if we must pay tribute to the Nord Modular G2 was an attempt to cross synth / computer requires power).
Besides the original user are generally very satisfied, even though as yet few ARTURIA simply does not at present the industrial strength of YAMAHA, ROLAND KORG or. There has to track messages of "real" users (not only commentators) on Audiofanzine or forums ARTURIA have to log on.
So yes, ORIGIN is more expensive than Microkorg, a little more expensive and a Virus TI, but it is just not the same thing. Therefore, any comparison of a strictly economic point of view is sterile.


Et ici dans sa version française :
Il y a une incompréhension qui persiste sur Origin, c'est de croire que c'est un "Virtual Analogue" comme les autres. Soit nous autres à ARTURIA n'avons pas assez/bien communiqué, soit le concept même échappe à beaucoup, soit plus probablement un joli mélange des deux.
ORIGIN est un synthétiseur :
_ numérique
_ modulaire
_ polyphonique
On peut certes s'en servir pour faire défiler les presets, les éditer/torturer et les sauvegarder dans ses propres emplacements utilisateurs. Soit.
On peut aussi charger un template (émulation précise d'un synthétiseur particulier) ; actuellement seul le Minimoog est intégré, mais d'autres arrivent. Re-soit.
Mais aussi et surtout, on peut construire ses propres structures de synthétiseur à partir de modules issus des synthés que vous connaissez toutes et tous, avec les joies et les surprises du câblage à la volée, sans l'encombrement d'un gros modulaire analogique, et avec la polyphonie ! C'est là qu'à mon humble avis réside la grande force de cette machine.
Si l'utilisateur recherche une simple banque de presets éditables, il y existe probablement des synthés bien plus fournis en nombre de presets pour sensiblement moins cher, et c'est très bien ainsi.
Mais si l'utilisateur ne veut pas se sentir prisonnier d'une structure fixe, et réellement se construire un ou plusieurs synthétiseurs en quelques clics selon ses besoins ou ses envies, il n'y a semble-t-il pas d'équivalent en hardware (même s'il faut rendre hommage au Nord Modular G2 qui fut une tentative d'hybridation synthé/ordinateur, puissance de calcul oblige).
D'ailleurs les utilisateurs d'Origin en sont globalement très satisfaits, même s'ils encore peu nombreux car ARTURIA n'a tout simplement pas à l'heure actuelle la force industrielle de YAMAHA, ROLAND ou KORG. Il n'y a d'ailleurs qu'à traquer les messages des "vrais" utilisateurs (pas des seuls commentateurs) sur Audiofanzine ou sur les forums ARTURIA, pour s'en rendre compte.
Alors oui, ORIGIN est plus cher qu'un Microkorg, un peu plus cher même qu'un Virus TI, mais ça n'est juste pas la même chose. Par conséquent, toute comparaison d'un strict point de vue économique est stérile.


And I repeat: the Arturia Origin is an excellent digital synthesizer that has nothing to do with the VST.

After that, think what you want, for me, I hear the difference and making the MAO since 1981 (Ircam) I know this is my best synth in all those I have.

Sorry for my bad english.
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by Cerebral Infect » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:46 am

Arturia skates around they don`t "have the industrial strenght" to compete with the big 3. A really good product sells. Access Virus sells alot. Nord Lead sells alot. And spec wise offer less than Arturia Origin (Origin can have 4 filters). If the Origin would be a really great product, it would sell alot. But try to change the perception of people have "you are buying a control surface and specific DSP that run computer software already available". It also add : "For the same amount of money, you have a new computer and you could buy the Arturia bundle and have pretty much the same sounds".

People know that Access with probably never release a Virus TI as a VSTi. But they know that Arturia might offer the Origin in a VSTi format. So why bother cashing out 2000$ to have sounds you can have for 600$. Yes you can mix filters and osc on the Origin. But would that really make a huge difference in the sound to have a series of Osc of a 2600 mixed with a moog filter ? Like Mind blowing ? No. And their module offering isn`t extensive as the Nord G2. You cannot AM between Osc,

If they would retake their Moog Modular and add the synths components as separate modules in a VSTi format, I would get it. The Origin, I still miss the why should I get it like the Virus TI, even though there are plenty of VST that imitates the TI, I am still wanting to grab one on ebay even it`s just a VSTi in a box (but it is impossible to not appreciate the filters of the Virus sound unique).
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by sensorium » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:01 am

deb76, I'm sorry that you don't seem to understand what everyone is saying here. The Origin is a computer running Arturia's VST's. Plain and simple. If I put new siding and a roof on my house, the have it professionally landscaped, will it make the inside of my house any nicer?

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by 23 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:23 am

Yeah, I can't say I really understood the point of the Origin as a synth.
Once you left out the VS Osc and Vektor factors, what were you really left with?
Pretty much a modular VA of sorts.
The only problem with that was really, was\is there that huge a difference between a saw of a Moog and the saw of CS-80?
I mean really, you can only have so much variance with a waveshape before it no longer warrants being called a saw.
Similarly, was there really that big a difference between 12db filter to a different 12db filter?

In essence, the concept in and of itself, though a capable synthesis system, I really don't think was enough of any one thing to warrant it's price or attract (much of) anyone.
On the non-analog emulative end, it'd leave a lot of folks in wanting I think. No sampling, no physical modelling (outside of analog circuits), no deep additive what nots, none of that crazy granular stuff, it just left much to be desired.

On the VA end, it suffered from a market that had been saturated for a bit more then a decade with various physical modelling synths (hard and soft) focused on emulating analog circuitry. In essence, for a number of folks, was the Origin really going to get them that much more beyond (similar) capability sets they probably already had or could piece together?

On a sheer modular end, it really didn't begin to touch on the depth of things like Kyma, the total DO WHATEVER YOU CAN WHIP UP nature of (the failed) Chameleon, or even the overall scope of possibility of things like the Nord Modular.

Once you piece all that together, there's some big gapping questions left...
Who exactly did Arturia have in mind when they decided to make this thing and what made them think they'd find the cost justifiable?

I mean I guess Arturia felt they had an answer to those questions, though I'll confess, I'm at a loss as to what those answers could have been.

An interesting and capable synth, that simply came out after it's own time, at a price point to high.

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by deb76 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:58 am

sensorium saids :
deb76, I'm sorry that you don't seem to understand what everyone is saying here.


Despite my bad English - sorry, there may be some subtleties of meaning that I do not - I understand that for everyone here believes that the Arturia Origin is not a true synthesizer and it's just a box with Vst within.

Origin is a computer running Arturia's VST's.

If you tested the Origin Arturia you would not say that. I not care whether the basic oscillators, filters, envelopes, are from synths "mythical." What interests me is the bottom, or I have the Origin Arturia and I realize that the sound is superb, its modulation possibilities are more important than my Yamaha SY99 who at the time, 1993, cost me as much.
For me, since I have Vst Arturia, I very well the difference.

Cerebral Infects saids :
A really good product sells. (...) If the Origin would be a really great product, it would sell alot.


Arturia sells the "Origin" is but a small french company. I remember a time when synthesizers as Ems Synthi Aks were produced in small quantities.

But they know that Arturia might offer the Origin in a VSTi format. So why bother cashing out 2000$ to have sounds you can have for 600$.

Anyway, this is not even bother to discuss, what you say is false. The sound of the Origin Arturia has nothing to do with what goes out of a computer from a Vst, as good as it is the sound card.
But hey, you think the opposite and I can not convince you. For my part, I hear the difference, I do not regret my purchase.
Finally, Arturia's reputation is well known, these are selling vst. Do you really qu'Arturia might have destroyed his reputation by offering a box with just the sound of its vst?

But no matter. In 1981, at Ircam music listening station 4X which was a computer dedicated to signal processing, with the Arturia Origin, I found this spirit, the same finesse and subtlety of sound, and the processing in real time.

PS: here 14 test pages in french where Arturia Origin is husked. You will see that I am not alone has estimated that the origin is an excellent and very performant synth.
: http://fr.audiofanzine.com/rack-modelis ... gin/tests/
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by mwbassguy » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:53 pm

deb76 - are you comparing the arturia origin against arturia's software, or other brands? What were saying is that the origin will sound the same as the CS80v or MinimoogV, not the same as native instruments or mda plugins emulating the same synth.

as far as an actual (street) price breakdown goes:
10 year suite - $700 +
laptop (macbook 13") - $1000 +
audio interface (saffire pro) - $300 +
control surface (novation remote) - $300 +
cheap DAW (eg reaper) $60 = $2360
vs
arturia origin - $2500
a tough sell.
an avatar and a sig make one's posts more easily recognizable.

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by cl516 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:30 pm

Interesting points all around. I knew the other perspective all along too, with the Origin being code with a hardware controller, but I didn't care. (Access Virus is code no? It's on powercore?) I still went down to the store to try it. It was the sound and the layout that hooked me in. Also, I didn't want something too complicated, but I didn't want the basic synth architecture to be completely restricted either. I tried it out for under 10 minutes, and it just felt right. I was playing music right away. It's certainly not a perfect synth, but I think it's really cool. I'll keep it for now. I have other VAs and analogs to complement, so for me I can just enjoy it - no need for me to stress whether it can, 'sound like this' or try to break it down in terms of its parts etc. For my purposes, I much prefer the Origin over a separate laptop + interface + etc. etc.

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by deb76 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:38 pm

Thank you cl516, I feel less alone.

For my purposes, I much prefer the Origin over a separate laptop + interface + etc. etc.
It's the same for me. I do not care whether the oscillators, filters, envelopes, have the basic ARP 2600, CS 80, Jupiter 8, Minimoog. What interests me is the resulting sound, which leaves the machine. And with the Origin, it has nothing to do with the VST, it's a real sound synthesizer

But clearly here the dominant idea is that the Origin was the vst Arturia in a box...

mwbassguy said : deb76 - are you comparing the arturia origin against arturia's software, or other brands? What were saying is that the origin will sound the same as the CS80v or MinimoogV, not the same as native instruments or mda plugins emulating the same synth.
Yes, I made the comparison with the VST Arturia I own: minimoog, Arp 2600, CS80, Jupiter 8, Prophet VS and the Moog Modular V2.
And I repeat, the sound of the origin is different, better, is that of a synthesizer and not a VST.

As highlighted cl516, it is not yet perfect, but it changes with the various updates. But already it is very powerful in its possibilities offered by the modulations of various parameters.

mwbassguy said : as far as an actual (street) price breakdown goes:
10 year suite - $700 +
laptop (macbook 13") - $1000 +
audio interface (saffire pro) - $300 +
control surface (novation remote) - $300 +
cheap DAW (eg reaper) $60 = $2360
vs
arturia origin - $2500
a tough sell.


Yes, it's hard to sell if the sound of the Origin Meem is that what will emerge from the computer with the 10 Year Suite. But this is not the case. When I play with a preset Minimoog, I really feel a real Minimoog, feeling that I did not, which is similar, with the VST. But imitation is not what I was looking for. Ultimately, the Origin has a real personality. That of a synthesizer and high performance.
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by Cerebral Infect » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:26 am

"But clearly here the dominant idea is that the Origin was the vst Arturia in a box..."

But this is the Arturia own selling argument. They say they uses the same TAE technology used in the VST on the Origin. If it`s not Arturia VST DNA that is in the Origin synth, then what is it ?

I never complained against the quality Origin synthesizer itself. Arturia marketing strategy just leave me puzzled. What we are discussing here are alternatives. Still saying it`s a small company means small success is false. Take a look at Nord and Access. They probably have the same company size at it`s core level. It's impossible to watch tv and not see a red synth in the background.

If the Origin was released with no previous release in VST synth just like the John Bowen Solaris, it might have generated more interest due to it`s inacessibility in other formats. If the Nord G2 was available as a softsynth only, I would not have the rack version of it. And I am the proud owner of the G2 engine.

What you trying to say is : "I think the synthesizer as whole exceed the sum of it`s individual synthesizer modules based on". And you are rigth about it. And we all understand it. You like the synth? Well great for you. You enjoy your synth and feel great about buying this unit ? I would say congratulation, you are a lucky guy. Lots of people here swaps synth without finding the gem that will satisfy them. I would pay 2000$ to get THE synth that answer my wishes and fuel my creation. But you seem to take it to a personnal level. What we are saying here is nothing personnal.

About the feeling of holding a real tangible instruments in your hands. I guess and can only guess because "tu sembles tout savoir et que je suis un pauvre con", that specific feeling explains the explosion in the market of various midi controllers in various forms to controls software application. And this have been discussed in length and width here. Arturia did put out a survey a few years back about venturing in the hardware market. My answer was : good midi controller that integrates well with the software. Arturai answer was : The analogue factory. Nice preset product.

Using Midibox, you can actually build yourself a 1:1 Minimoog Control Panel Replica midi interface with switches and pots.
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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by SWAN » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:05 am

it is possible that the code in the Origin is superior due to not having the constraints of VST architecture. Perhaps its also running at high sample rates.

It would not be the first time a dedicated DSP solution sounded better than - lets say the MAJORITY - of native processes. Eg the SCOPE synths, Virus powercore/TDM and the similar Duende vs Waves SSL...

The point people often make is that Hardware DSP are just computers in a box. However it seems like often the hardware DSP are able to run better code. Either through the advantages of the DSP compared to the cluttered operating system, or the fact that the developer is more keen and can afford to spend more money on top quality coding for hardware DSP product. I t seems like developers will put more skillful engineers/more work on hardware DSP platforms when they will not be subject to piracy.

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Re: How have Arturia Origin sales been?

Post by 23 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:01 pm

mwbassguy wrote:deb76 - are you comparing the arturia origin against arturia's software, or other brands? What were saying is that the origin will sound the same as the CS80v or MinimoogV, not the same as native instruments or mda plugins emulating the same synth.

as far as an actual (street) price breakdown goes:
10 year suite - $700 +
laptop (macbook 13") - $1000 +
audio interface (saffire pro) - $300 +
control surface (novation remote) - $300 +
cheap DAW (eg reaper) $60 = $2360
vs
arturia origin - $2500
a tough sell.
Well, I mean it's not necessarily going to sound the "same" as the CS80v or MinimoogV as the archs are potentially vastly different. So an Origin can clone a CS80v or a MinimoogV, but having a CS80V, MInimoogV, and all other software does not amount to an Origin.
So even if one bought all the Arturia plugins, a controller, etc. they still wouldn't end up with an Origin.
I.E. None of the Arturia Plugins, even when combined, would be capable of offering up an arch like

|--VEKTOR CONTROLLED MIXER
|
Prophet VS OSC ------------------------------------ | |------------------------------|
^(Osc1 -> Osc3FM) | v | |
VA Multimode OSC (pick whatever version) |--->VA LPF------->VA HPF------| (Mixer) |->Amp
^(Osc1 -> Osc2FM) | ^ ^ |-> VA BPF---->VA BPF----| |
VA Multimode OSC (pick whatever version)----- | | ^ ^ |
^ ^ |___________| |__________| |
| | | | v
|---LFO1 |---ADSR EG1 |---LFO2 \ |--LFO3 \ LFO4\
ADSR EG2 ADSR EG3 ADSR EG4

* unfortunately, you'll have to quote this posting in order to view the example arch map correctly*


Anyhow, it's just a simple example, but you could grab all the software plugins, the mac pro, a controller, etc.
And you still aren't going to be able to make up an arch like the one above (or many others).
This doesn't change the fact that all the individual pieces of that arch are comprised of individual aspects the plugins contain though. (thus, THE INDIVIDUAL PIECES sound no different then individual aspects of the various software)
But again, if one is into fashioning crazy weird modular archs like this, the modules contained with a Nord Modular are going to get them A LOT further. Kyma is just going to blow the options of what could be done int his regard completely apart. As would the aforementioned past Chameleon.
Similarly, software like Reaktor and Tassman are going to allow for generally higher amount of options.
Despite only being semi-modular in and of itself, one could easily argue that the Roland VGTs are going to offer more flexible options then that presented by the Origin. (and one could argue even the original Vs would)

Now, given the VA onslaught that occurred over the past 10 years, would it be possible for me to combine some variety of pieces (assuming the can receive external signals) and end up with an overall arch similar to the one I drew up above (or a wide variety of others)? Yes.
Similarly, one might even break away from VA totally in part of the arch and go true analog.
Now can someone get UBBER specific and be like well I want this Osc to be modeled after the Minimoog and the EGs to be modeled after a CS80?
Probably not.
But like I said, there comes a point of a certain kind of indifference I think.
We can only bend a saw so much before were no longer going to consider a saw wave (etc. etc.)
The people out for such small details in abundance isn't just niche, but a niche buried within a niche.

So will it sound like the VSTs?
Only in regard to SPECIFIC parts.
Which in sum total, means NO, as the arch is of a vastly different nature.
Will it sound better then VSTs?
NO, but again, only in regard to specific parts.
When in sum total, do to the vastly different archs that can be generated, I suppose "yes", it could end up doing so; but that would have nothing to do with some totally new code written just for Origin.

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