Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
synthmax
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:36 am
Gear: PEK, Voyager, JP-8080, Sirius, Radias, Lead 2, X-Station25, KS-Rack, Z1, MPC4000

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by synthmax » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:13 pm

Interesting. So we are talking pre OS 3 models, or just those with no backlight? Because if backlight is the ony difference I'll throw a 1500 bid out there right now.

User avatar
Alphacode
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:45 am
Location: I'm around...

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by Alphacode » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:51 pm

Before buying the Os i was playing with the little phatty and the Voyager ( regular ). First difference , stepping on knobs in the Voyager and LP that you won't find in the Os . Another thing try to detune the oscillators very slightly to create a very slow sweep between them on the regular voyager or LP.... good luck , the OS is an full analogue synthesizer ,the LP and voyager digitally controlled analogues .... BIG DIFFERENCE For some of us that wants to be able to play live with the filter without hearing 127 steps on the knobs ...

,and i got mine new in the shop with also a brand new kenton midi -cv (which has a great LFO btw ) for 2000 new so it's not too bad.

User avatar
shaft9000
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 2042
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:13 am
Real name: Dave
Gear: Whips chains waxes oils dildos DMT TNT the LHC, and a black rubber duckie
Band: moneymoneymoney
Location: VanNuys, CA USA
Contact:

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by shaft9000 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:56 pm

FWIW - afaik alphacode, the LP t.e.'s controls are switch-wired analog, unlike the Voyager/Stage's 14-bit quantized controls. There's no zippering on LP whatsoever (the tribute edition - the Stages DO have digital knob quantizing to keep cost down).

carry on, gents.
2600.solus.modcan a.eurorack.cs60.JP8.Juno6.A6.sunsyn.volcakeys.jd990.tb303.x0xb0x.revolution.
999.m1am1.RY30.svc350.memotron

shaft9000.muffwiggler.com <- singles & mixtape
shaft9000.bandcamp.com <- spacemusic album
youtube.com/shaft9000 <- various synth demos and studies

tunedLow
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:08 pm
Gear: Sage XP 4wt 10
Sage TXL 3wt 710
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by tunedLow » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:33 am

Alphacode, I've had a voyager for some time now and haven't noticed stepping. Could you explain what you are doing to hear it? Just curious.

User avatar
Automatic Gainsay
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3962
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:22 am
Real name: Marc Doty
Gear: Minimoog, 2600, CS-15, CS-50, MiniBrute, MicroBrute, S2, Korg MS-20 Mini, 3 Volcas, Pro 2, Leipzig, Pianet T, Wurli 7300, Wurli 145-A, ASR-10, e6400.
Band: Godfrey's Cordial
Location: Tacoma
Contact:

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:48 am

xpander wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:Is it just me, or is it weird that most people can't help but make Minimoog comparisons whenever the OS comes up?
... posts a man who's never owned a Voyager Old School into a thread entitled "Anyone regret getting [a] Voyager Old School?" The start of the second sentence of the main Minimoog Voyager Old School product page on moogmusic.com: "The perfect solution for players looking for a road-worthy replacement for their venerable Minimoog Model D ... "

fwiw, i originally brought up the model d in this thread to counter the idea in the original post that the Voyager OS will stay a classic- because i don't think of the OS as classic yet while obviously the model d is.!
You know xpander, instead of sounding like a pissy b***h and playing the tired "you've never owned one" card, you could have just said "Moog is to blame, right on their product page."

And pardon me for making a totally innocuous comment in a thread about a synth I've never owned. If everyone was prevented from doing that, imagine how lonely this vintage forum would be.

Incidentally, "roadworthy replacement" doesn't mean "identical soundalike." I would, theoretically, be replacing my Minimoog in a live sense with an OS.

The OS isn't a classic, and won't ever be a classic... hasn't production of it ceased?
‎"I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -Charles Babbage
"Unity and Mediocrity are forever in bed together." -Zane W.
http://www.youtube.com/automaticgainsay

bsh
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:11 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by bsh » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:15 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:If I buy a modern synth, it's going to be an OS.
I don't care that it doesn't sound like a Minimoog. I am merely attracted to having a solidly built nice sounding modern analog synth.
I have to echo everyone who has said "if you don't like yours... you can send it to me... [paraphrased])

Is it just me, or is it weird that most people can't help but make Minimoog comparisons whenever the OS comes up? Just because it's Old School doesn't mean they meant for it to be a Minimoog clone. My understanding was simply that the Old School aspect was the lack of presets, digital control, etc. ::shrugs::
Anyway. I covet.
I warn you, "not the same as a Minimoog" didn't translate into "different, but still awesome" for me. YMMV, of course.

In my purely personal opinion, they DO sound like Minimoogs, in fact they sound JUST like Minimoogs, just weirdly clean and well behaved. It's not like it's another flavor of sound to add to your arsenal. It is the stepford-wife Minimoog.

It stays in tune perfectly, it's dead quiet, you don't get dramatic differences in the volume with slightly different settings; it is utterly without the faults of the old one, it just has no soul.

So pound a stake in it's heart and buy a synth from a company who doesn't "improve" synths, but obsesses over every little thing that made the greats great. Like Ken MacBeth, but there are of course others. I was looking for an M3 when I found a super cheap Minimidi, but I still might get one (if I don't get an M5).

I mean, I look at it this way- analog synth technology is 40 years old, there's no grand engineering challenges left. It's all craftsmanship these days, just like a guitar, violin or anything else. I will only buy from people who live and breathe this fact from now on. The classics sounded great largely by accident, you can't design in subjective appreciation of the sound, you have to stumble on it and hone it until it's great.

I must admit they ARE really purdy, and they don't totally suck. If you still want one, just buy second hand and don't overpay... or sell anything rare first.

Personally, the OS loses the coolest feature of the Voyager, the variable filter slopes. And patch storage, of course. At least in theory, I got a headache paging through 800 presents that sounded wayyyy too similar and bland.
MidiMini, MacBeth M5, Synthesizers.com 44 space, MV-8000, VP-9000, RE-201. Arp Solina, Rhodes Chroma Polaris, Prophet 600, ARP 2600, Prophet 5.

User avatar
xpander
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1541
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:15 am
Gear: UltraProteus, Xpander, 200e, Minimoogs, Radias, Prophet VS, PolyEvolver, Arp 2600
Location: los gatos, california
Contact:

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by xpander » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:27 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:You know xpander, instead of sounding like a pissy b***h and playing the tired "you've never owned one" card, you could have just said "Moog is to blame, right on their product page."
:lol:

pissy b***h, ftw!

Image
Last edited by xpander on Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
CZ Rider
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:31 am
Location: The Edge of Space
Contact:

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by CZ Rider » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:31 am

Alphacode wrote:the OS is an full analogue synthesizer ,the LP and voyager digitally controlled analogues .... BIG DIFFERENCE.
Well, that is not entirely true? The Voyager OS uses the same digitally scaned keyboard as the Voyager and probably the velocity CV is digital too. So if you are using the keyboard, you are digitally controlling your OS. :)

I don't regret not getting an OS when they came out. I really thought Moog should have introduced the Voyager line with that setup first. And the original proto drawings were very similar to the OS. Almost seem backwards to have offered this after the full MIDI version, and probably why it is being discontinued, just not enough interested.

I would miss the presets and the touch pad. It took a while to get accustomed to the touch pad. (I learned to tilt the panel almost flat.) With the VX-351 you can use the touch pad CV's to control whatever you can imagine, from a modular to effect boxes. And I had to accept the fact that MIDI is what it does really well. But there are so many things you can do with the Voyager, the door is wide open. You don't have to use the presets, just select live (active) panel and go from there. The only stepping you will hear is when you select a preset, then adjust a panel parameter while playing a note, the Voyager will snap to that knob setting. Although that sound could be mistaken for digital stepping, it won't do this with an active front panel. A drawback to a system with presets and a panel activated by turning the knob. No system is perfect, but a least you have the option to turn off the presets if you want. And probably one of the best features is MIDI chaining voyagers for a polyphonic instrument, with panel changes registering on all voices.(Great use of MIDI) Not a perfect solution, but just another option.
So although I don't own or plan on owning an OS, I would miss all of those options. It seems the standard Voyager can be an OS but not the other way around. Worth the extra few bucks for my needs. :D


Three voice poly Voyager controlling modular with touch pad! :lol:
Image
Last edited by CZ Rider on Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Christopher Winkels
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:52 am
Location: Burlington, Canada, eh.

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by Christopher Winkels » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:50 pm

bsh wrote:
In my purely personal opinion, they DO sound like Minimoogs, in fact they sound JUST like Minimoogs, just weirdly clean and well behaved. It's not like it's another flavor of sound to add to your arsenal. It is the stepford-wife Minimoog.

It stays in tune perfectly, it's dead quiet, you don't get dramatic differences in the volume with slightly different settings; it is utterly without the faults of the old one, it just has no soul.
I always raise an eyebrow when people use the word "soul" to talk about an instrument.

To me, soul is one of those words bandied about (and not just in music instrument forums; go to any car aficionado website, or hi-fi stereo sites, or anything else that inspires a lot of men - it's always men - to get very passionate about a engineered and manufactured object). Like "p**n" or "transparency" is impossible to define but easy to recognize.

At its best it acts as a catch all term that says "this item has or does not have an ineffable quality that I cannot articulate". At worst its a term thrown about as a bit of misplaced elitist romanticism; the idea that an item is not truly great unless it has significant flaws and shortcomings to offset its otherwise inherent greatness. I'm not accusing you of the latter, by the way, but to say an instrument has no soul is wrong.

No instrument, ever, has soul. Dave Gilmour's Strat has no soul. Yitzhak Perlman's Stradavarius has no soul, and neither does Emerson's modular Moog, Currie's Odyssey or Barbieri's Prophet. They're all tools, and as the old saying goes, only the poor carpenter blames his hammer. There are good tools and bad tools, but there are no soulful tools. Me, I'd love to the Model D. But I love PWM too, and full ADSR envelopes, and hard sync. If a VOS is missing the sonic quality necessary to appeal to someone's ears, that's a valid thing. But no soul? On that point I have to vehemently disagree with you.

User avatar
seamonkey
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:09 pm
Real name: Rick
Location: Sunny Florida

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by seamonkey » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:27 pm

christopher, thank you for your thoughtful comment. :)

xpander and AG can we have a group Moog hug? :love7:
Moog Voyager Roland D50 Ensoniq VFX-SD, Korg Wavestation Emulator II, Emax SE Plus, Korg King Korg, Korg Arp Odyssey(Whiteface), Minibrute, Takamine Acoustic Peavey Falcon electric

jgirv
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:49 pm

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by jgirv » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:55 pm

...it's all in how ya play 'em... coming from a classical background, I gotta tell ya, this ballyhooing about "it doesn't sound like a Model D" is kinda silly... I've worked with string players whose violins and cellos ALL sound different from each other... and THEN, when someone else plays their instrument, it sounds different AGAIN!...

I think the true worth of an instrument is how well it can translate the player's tactile commands to music... yes, the model d does that extremely well... my LP also does it terrifically... it's the one electronic instrument I own that I never tire of playing live... interestingly enough, I also use the MIDI features less than I thought I would... but the patch storage is very helpful in live situations, just to re-set the stepping-off point for manual adjustment. Other than this aspect, I would probably really enjoy an OS.

Sometimes I wonder if the folks comparing the instruments are just holding down one note and twisting knobs...and listening to minute differences... that will get obliterated in any case when the drums come in!

If you were to do the same with a violin, you'd come away with the impression that it's not a very interesting sound...but in the right hands, wow! End of rant. And, BTW, the other opinions expressed above are all valid, just depends on your perspective.

User avatar
otto
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1571
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:00 pm
Location: Utah

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by otto » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:03 pm

tunedLow wrote:Alphacode, I've had a voyager for some time now and haven't noticed stepping. Could you explain what you are doing to hear it? Just curious.
I’m curious as well. I don’t notice obvious audible stepping on my LP (stage) and I’ve had many vintage and modern monos to compare it to. I still have the LP and can’t say the same for the rest.
hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again

User avatar
Solderman
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:43 pm

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by Solderman » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:14 pm

In my Voyager RME, I hear zipper noise while tweaking filter cutoff for notes above around C4. Pitch bend from my controller at this pitch range also produces stair-stepped bends, although the effect is alot more subtle. Supposedly the latter is caused by most controllers only using 7 bits instead of the typical 14 bits, that pitch bend should use.

The knobs send out a Midi CC pair instead of one Midi CC, in an attempt to preserve more resolution. The unfortunate thing is, not all Midi software can record them. Ableton Live 7 just plays back garbled data, for instance.

On this bit about the 70's vintage machines having "soul", I think this is just a euphamism for uniqueness and instability wrapped into a neat little 4 letter word. None of us want our machines to play themselves, but may be inspired by less than predictable nature.

I'm betting half the s**t we rave about on this site doesn't even make it to a final mix. It's more about what drives one to play and keeps you coming back.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
--Solderman no more.

User avatar
seamonkey
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:09 pm
Real name: Rick
Location: Sunny Florida

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by seamonkey » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:52 pm

Solderman wrote: On this bit about the 70's vintage machines having "soul", I think this is just a euphamism for uniqueness and instability wrapped into a neat little 4 letter word. None of us want our machines to play themselves, but may be inspired by less than predictable nature.
Solderman, I think the Model D minimoog is a bit more than unique but I understand what you are saying. I would say it has it's own character because of the oscillators and filters designed by Bob Moog, the instability you refer to is what gives each individual Model D it's own character..
Moog Voyager Roland D50 Ensoniq VFX-SD, Korg Wavestation Emulator II, Emax SE Plus, Korg King Korg, Korg Arp Odyssey(Whiteface), Minibrute, Takamine Acoustic Peavey Falcon electric

User avatar
b3groover
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 965
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:41 am
Real name: Jim
Band: THEO
Location: Lansing, MI
Contact:

Re: Anyone regret getting Voyager Old School?

Post by b3groover » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:49 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it true that Moog himself did NOT want the OS released?

If you use your instruments live, than patch storage is almost a necessity. I know it is for me; I've got too many other things happening with all four limbs (sitting on the organ bench) to tweak a bunch of knobs mid-performance.

As for the "soul" comment; point taken, although there is an ethereal "something" that certain instruments have. When I bought my Voyager used the seller also had a nice Minimoog D and he was honest with me and showed me why he was selling the Voyager. Comparing the two side by side... well... the Voyager really is its own instrument and is not a substitute for the mini. It's a good approximation and for live use is more convenient for sure. And as with anything, it's about compromise. Which instrument works best for you is something only you can decide.

Post Reply