Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

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Tchammosaur
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Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

Post by Tchammosaur » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:54 pm

This was my first synth and I've had it for a few years now. These days, I still use it, but I have a sort of love-hate relationship with it. I read, and use to think, that it is good for pads. Unfortunately, I cannot get a good pad sound out of it, with any amount of Eq or effects (or at least a pad sound that's pleasing to my ears). For this reason, I've been thinking of replacing it with a Juno-60. I would say that when playing chords, it takes up a lot of space in the mid frequency range without a very convincing timbre (a sort of sharp, cold timbre). For strings, the same thing goes with the chords. There is a use, however, that I've found for its chords, and that is in long held chords in the upper register. When you want a hi-range chord to cut through, it works kind of like a hammond B3 in the upper register, but with its own character.
I think it's pretty clear to anyone who has owned it that it's impossible to get a good bass sound.
However, it does have midi. Using a single oscillator most of the time, I am using this synth more and more to write filler lines. That is, not the lead most of the time, but ornamental mono-lines in the upper register, in a very mechanical sort of way. I think the best use for this synth is as a secondary monosynth. It can be heard, sharp and present for a second, but leaves space for real monosynths to play the main line. Still, overall, I am convinced that the inherent sound is very hard to incorporate into a mix.

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Re: Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

Post by clusterchord » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:05 am

not juno 60.

replace it with a JX-8P, or even better MKS-70. grab a PG-800 programmer if u can, but its not mandatory. ive used em for yrs without any programmer.

in this price range, there are no other analogs that can match their warmth and softness for pads/silkstrings/violas etc.. beautiful voxy pads as well. JX8/10 filter has a certain quality when in resonance that works great simulating a formant. its so soft and.well.. voxy..

of course the onboard Roland chorus helps a lot.

anyway, beyond the pad/string stuff, its still a vey capable analog polysynth with two oscillators, two envelopes. sync/crossmodulation, velocity routing to most imporant parameters like envs, vca, filter, mixer.. so it does nice bells, oscillator sync leads, warm brass, bass etc..


edit: in addition, 2 tricks when using pads in a mix, regardless of the synth used: HPF set on eq is your friend, to preserve heardroom and clear the mud. u set the freq. just below the point where the sound starts losing its warm character. when u add the bass line, its gonna sound the same again. second, use a sidechain compression on pads, not much, 2dB of GR at most, controlled by drum bus or kick/snare combination. sits better in the mix, without draining all otehr instruments in "soup".
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Re: Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

Post by diezdiazgiant » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:48 am

I've had a jx3p for about 6 months and so far I've been liking it in the mix for melodic percussive bits. Bells and keys or something with no attack and very short decay. I've been digging the sound you get when you sequence it externally and have the sequence go to another synth, adjust the gain and balance between the 2 and you can get some fun tones.
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Re: Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

Post by elphcoil » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:07 am

hmm, i've been able to create usable strings and pads on my mks-30 even before i had the pg-300. btw, it's kind of funny to think about how much time the pg-300 will save you. add a little reverb and/or chorus and you're set..
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Re: Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

Post by Tchammosaur » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:24 am

clusterchord wrote: second, use a sidechain compression on pads, not much, 2dB of GR at most, controlled by drum bus or kick/snare combination. sits better in the mix, without draining all otehr instruments in "soup".
Thanks for the advice, and this brings up a question I've been asking myself. I have an RNC compressor. In this one track, I want to compress the drums a lot, and I want a pad to be compressed with short attack and short release, controlled by the drums, but I don't want to compress the pad nearly as much as the drums. How would I do that? (Sound production at this point probably..)

Also, do the JX-8P / JX-10 sound like a JX-3P?

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Re: Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

Post by Yoozer » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:44 am

Tchammosaur wrote:Also, do the JX-8P / JX-10 sound like a JX-3P?
No, the JX8P is a lot smoother than the JX3P.
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Re: Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

Post by Syn303 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:31 am

Yoozer wrote:
Tchammosaur wrote:Also, do the JX-8P / JX-10 sound like a JX-3P?
No, the JX8P is a lot smoother than the JX3P.
The JX-8P is a lot more troublesome than the JX-3P, esp when you get problems with the keyboard sensing,
when the aftertouch and velocity doesn't work as it should, so requires dismantling and a clean-up job to get
it working again.
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Re: Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

Post by OriginalJambo » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:42 pm

Yoozer wrote:No, the JX8P is a lot smoother than the JX3P.
Oh yeah, definitely. Not necessarily a good thing all the time though.

The JX-8P/10 can sound fantastic at times but a more than a little vanilla at others, if you ask me. I think it's quite a transparent synth in the sense that it doesn't seem to ooze character (like a Moog), despite having quite a detailed and polished quality. This can work in your favour however, for padding out a mix. It's true that the slow envelopes limit it to softer patches somewhat, so don't go in expecting an Oberheim/Prophet on the cheap!

The JX-3P seems to possess better envelopes and is has a grittier, less refined vibe - sort of like a slightly more metallic Juno, although it still sounds very close to one IMO. I definitely has its quirks, and I understand why some may not appreciate its sound, but it's still a whole lot of fun. Overall I'd say it wouldn't be my first choice for bass or leads but is a good all-rounder nonetheless.

One similarity is that both share is the character of their filter resonances - quite harsh and nasal when pushed. In short while they both have their own limitations, both are still solid synths for the money.
Last edited by OriginalJambo on Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

Post by Pro5 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:05 pm

Both good synths for different reasons. The 8P is more 'epic' and the 3P is more 'edgy'. The smoothness of the 8P is nice.

The 3P CAN sound smooth if you program the right sounds but it's not as flexible overall and isn't by default 'smooth' but bright, metallic... I'd say it sounds more pure lower down the octaves than the 8P... play a sync sound on both bottom Cs and pitch bend down to suit and the 3P appears to handle it better (and really gives that 'analog' tingle in your head - like the electrons are trying to brainwash you)

8P can come up with classier pads more easily, 3P comes up with less 'overdone' chimes, bells, bass-ish sounds. 8P can sound a bit too sweet sometimes, 3P sounds more raw. Possibly down to the filter diff (JP8/juno60 filter in the 3P)

I've found both can sit happily in the background in a mix, possibly due to their less 'thick' tone compared to some other analogs.

I also think the 3P has more character in that it's more distinctive (for better or worse) in a mix than the 8P which can 'emulate' other synths a bit easier, even if accidentally. Overal 8P is a far better all rounder, 3P is more 'special' (if it's sound is to your liking). It's NOT meant to compete with an SH101, TB303 or even a Juno - so if that's the kind of music you make then 3P isn't going to be too useful for you :)

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Re: Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

Post by Joey » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:05 pm

i wouldnt say their filter resonances sound the same at all... i used to have a juno 106, which uses the IR3109, also in the JX3p, and i had an mks70... i didnt find their filters to be anywhere close to eachother
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Re: Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

Post by Pro5 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:21 pm

Joey wrote:i wouldnt say their filter resonances sound the same at all... i used to have a juno 106, which uses the IR3109, also in the JX3p, and i had an mks70... i didnt find their filters to be anywhere close to eachother
And on that topic, 8P resonance is (sorry, CAN be if pushed) harsher to my ears... errr more brittle perhaps? 3P seems more refined. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors :) :?:

there's a couple of patches on both the 3P and the 8P which are similar, like Roland did the 'updated' version for the 8P and they 'can' sound similar but the 8P version sounded more cloudy, like a 'glossy' facsimile of the 3Ps version. I'm going to play them now instead of talking about them. Sorry for the side tangent of 3P v 8P.

ahh I found that list someone typed up on another forum (prob someone from this forum) always useful in a thread like this - and as for the Juno 106: IR3109 as you said (Not mentioned here though). Sorry for all this editing but I found the Juno 106 specs for completion.
Jupiter 8
VCO: Discrete
VCF: IR3109
VCA: BA662
ENV: IR3R01

JX-3P
DCO: Standard Ic.
VCF: IR3109
VCA: BA662
ENV: Software

Juno 6, Juno 60
DCO: Standard Ic.
VCF: IR3109
VCA: BA662
ENV: IR3R01

Juno 106
DCO: MC5534A
VCF: A1QH80017A (integrated package of IR3109 and BA662)
VCA: A1QH80017A (integrated package of IR3109 and BA662)
ENV: Software

As of JX-8P, it lies on sonically different side. We can see why:

JX-8P, Super JX-10, MKS-70
DCO: Standard Ic.
VCF: IR3R05
VCA: M5241
ENV: Software

Same applies to Alpha Juno1, Alpha Juno2 and MKS-50:

Alpha Juno 1, Alpha Juno 2, MKS-50
DCO: MB87123P-G
VCF: IR3R05
VCA: M5241
ENV: Software
So yes 106 should sound different to MKS70 as 3P sounds different to 8P.
8P vs MKS70 - diff op-amps/cleaner sound on MKS.
Last edited by Pro5 on Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:35 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Some thoughts on using a JX-3P in a mix.

Post by OriginalJambo » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:01 am

Joey wrote:i wouldnt say their filter resonances sound the same at all... i used to have a juno 106, which uses the IR3109, also in the JX3p, and i had an mks70... i didnt find their filters to be anywhere close to eachother
I never stated that though - I merely mentioned that both have quite harsh sounding resonance in general, although I'd say that there seems to be a little more leeway with the 3P. I haven't any experience with a 106 so I won't comment on that.

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