older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by Hair » Sun May 03, 2009 5:06 pm

I think the whole draw of VAs is that they're self contained, being able to create everything from a single digital core or whatever (probably have the wrong term but I'm going to keep using it anyway). I don't think making it so said digital cores only created an oscillator module or a filter module or whatever would be much (if any) cheaper than making a full-on synth partswise, especially with added patch points and CV conversion.. unless you just mean a "fake" modular not compatible with the analog modular stuff, like a modular equivalent of the Korg Legacy MS20 controller or something.

I do think it would be novel to have a semi-modular VA with V/Hz compatible patch points though, it would probably be mad expensive though, and the modular guys probably wouldn't buy it because it's not analog. But I still think it would be cool to have supersaws and wavetable stuff and what-not fully integrated in a modular enviornment. I think I saw a digital oscillator module somewhere that could do the supersaw thing though. (edit: MOTM 520+521 and E340)

RE: first gen VAs, I don't really like them, to me they're cold and rough around the edges, not really my thing - BUT, that coldness is indicative of having a distinct character from other synths (VA or otherwise), so if people dig that sound, that's the way to get it.. although I'm not convinced you couldn't get a similar character from the VSTs people make using SynthEdit, or most free VSTs :|
Last edited by Hair on Sun May 03, 2009 5:14 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by otto » Sun May 03, 2009 5:07 pm

There are lots of options for software modulars which is basically how you use a nord modular anyway, right?
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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by mute » Mon May 04, 2009 6:46 am

I love the MS2000's VA. I wish they had used it in the Radius or at least on one of the Osc's. The wave of VA's that came along during that period (Ion, MS2000, Q, jp8000, etc.) are pretty sweet and some have interesting features squeezed into them. I really like that a majority of them are semi-modular and have rack versions. Never did care for the Novation V/a's like the bass station, a/k station... tho people seem to be pretty favorable towards the sounds the later KS models have.

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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by wingedwhale » Tue May 05, 2009 3:51 am

I hope there is a certain "appreciation" for earlier Virtual Analogs, seeing as I'm looking to sell my MS2000 for a reasonable price at some point.

I don't know what special characteristics that machine has as I don't have much to compare it to. I can say that I personally like the onboard effects--delay, chorus, and distortion. Those three add a nice bit of character. And, of course, the vocoder part is pretty nifty. I've heard the Mod Sequence part is really cool but I never figured it out (I'm a caveman).

Does anybody have specific examples of how these early VA synths are special? I mean, besides "oh it sounds digital" or "metallic?" Can you give me a situation in which a digital sound would be effective? My first thought is "industrial/darkwave"-type stuff.

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Re: "Vintage" VA synths

Post by ryryoftokyo » Tue May 05, 2009 5:39 pm

#-o[/quote]



But I guess it depends on what analog is to you in regards to sound. [/quote]

I think that is the problem with your logic. It seems to me that you think analog means “good sound” when it actually refers to how the synth was made. I’m completely ok with the idea that your prefer the sound of your AN1X to a minimoog. Good for you. However saying it sounds more analog than analog is like saying a plastic plant is more real than a real plant. There are serious flaws in your logic or understanding of what analog is. What you really mean to say is that you prefer the sound of a VA to analog not that a VA sounds more analog than analog.

Really this underscores the whole reason I’m annoyed at applying the word vintage to something that is, in fact, not vintage. Your just bastardizing a term into meaninglessness. Which I suppose, is part or whole of post-modernism, but that’s a different tangent. Words have meaning for a reason. When you use a word incorrectly it is just an inherent misunderstanding of the word. Continuing to misuse a word is just that, the word doesn’t suddenly change meaning because it is convenient or you just don’t understand it.[/quote]

and this would be the problem with not reading the whole post and only seeing what you want to see. I explained that I know what analog is, however, there are many that talk about analog having an entirely different nature beyond the simple fact that the sound is produced by VCOs, VCFs, etc...even Robert Moog had said that analog has a sort of spiritual feel to it. That's what I'm getting at....I've played many analogs and felt just as turned off in the same way I was when I had my Korg Triton...but then again, I've played a digital and felt very inspired by the behavior of the sound in the same way I did playing a multimoog. get it?
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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by otto » Tue May 05, 2009 5:44 pm

While many synths do get pigeonholed, it probably isn’t fare to think of any synth that way. Considering that VAs have been used by all kinds of musicians. You hear VAs everywhere over the last decade, I’d say as much or more so than analog. The MS2000/microkorg is probably the most ubiquitous of them all. Indie, pop, industrial, metal, emo, probably hip-hop to some extent. You would probably have a harder time listing bands (who use synths of course) that haven’t incorporated some element of VA in their recordings. One nice thing about VAs is their versatility. You can get close to sounding analog and you can get into weird digital FM aliasing territory all on the same synth.
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Re: "Vintage" VA synths

Post by otto » Tue May 05, 2009 6:06 pm

ryryoftokyo wrote: and this would be the problem with not reading the whole post and only seeing what you want to see. I explained that I know what analog is, however, there are many that talk about analog having an entirely different nature beyond the simple fact that the sound is produced by VCOs, VCFs, etc...even Robert Moog had said that analog has a sort of spiritual feel to it. That's what I'm getting at....I've played many analogs and felt just as turned off in the same way I was when I had my Korg Triton...but then again, I've played a digital and felt very inspired by the behavior of the sound in the same way I did playing a multimoog. get it?
A drum circle analogy of analog spirituality. Gelling with an instrument doesn’t make it analog. Again you’re just trying to convolute a term rather than just clearly stating that you prefer the AN1X to many analogs you’ve used. Is that so difficult? You can spin your take on using the word analog incorrectly any way you like it and in the end it will still be an incorrect use of the word. Metaphysics will get you nowhere. If I am failing to address a specific point you’ve made than I will be happy to discuss it in depth. All you are really saying is:
ryryoftokyo wrote: synth + I like = analog
synth + I don’t like = not analog
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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by tallowwaters » Tue May 05, 2009 10:42 pm

?

This chicken is more steak like than steak. Steak used to have a soul before it bled to death. Sometimes I hate steak and chicken, but sometimes steak can be chicken. Get it?

So are you saying "analog isn't just a costume, it's a way of life!!!"
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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by Architecture » Wed May 06, 2009 12:42 am

So are you saying "analog isn't just a costume, it's a way of life!!!"

and how. Just like gangsta rap, if you aint got the street cred, you aint gangsta.

on a note reguarding the microkorg, it is easily the most popular synth of the 2000's, if not the most widely used VA out there, by many non electronic bands and electronic acts .

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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by Zamise » Wed May 06, 2009 12:52 am

We're saying the AN1X is analogous to a Nexus 6.

I liked that term Vintage VA. It rolls off the tounge quite nicely with a distinctive Yellow #5 flavor and ozonesque bouquet, I don't see anything wrong with calling them that, someone should start VintageVAsynth.com
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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by tallowwaters » Wed May 06, 2009 1:57 am

Architecture wrote:So are you saying "analog isn't just a costume, it's a way of life!!!"

and how. Just like gangsta rap, if you aint got the street cred, you aint gangsta.
Can't pick up where my quote came from, eh?
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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by otto » Wed May 06, 2009 3:24 am

tallowwaters wrote: Can't pick up where my quote came from, eh?
Brains?
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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by Zamise » Wed May 06, 2009 3:52 am

Its from an episode of CSI. The one where they like to dress up as animal mascotts and have fur pile orgies until someone strokes out and dies from heat exhaustion.
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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by Sir Ruff » Wed May 06, 2009 5:04 am

Um... So what I want to know is, what's the dirtiest VA? I just sold my NL2 after quite a long time of non-usage. It sounded fine, but still maybe too clean...

Someone mentioned Vaz a while back, I actually swear by the DEMO version of the original Vaz (you can't save patches, just like a vintage monosynth! :lol: ) It really is way rougher than the commercial version (and I appreciated the irony of earlier versions of software sounding more rawer/better than later ones some time ago)

There was a recent thread about the MS2000 that was fairly similar to this one (tho far more constructive), and that got me interested in that, but am still put off by 4 voices. I've also played a jp8000 and was impressed. But it seems like anything Waldorf (XT.. Q?) might take the cake for digital grunginess...

What do people think?
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Re: older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Post by tallowwaters » Wed May 06, 2009 11:58 am

otto wrote:
tallowwaters wrote: Can't pick up where my quote came from, eh?
Brains?
=D>
I imagine it would be harder for the young'ns to pick up.
Brains can be used like a "stress ball," but only once.

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