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older first generation lineage VA synths ;)

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:07 pm
by Architecture
I know that sound ironic but its something that has got me thinking. There is without any doubt that the first generation VA's have quite a different sound from the newer VA's or softsynths on the market. Owning a JP8000, and having owned a EA-1, ER-1, Micron (which is for sale btw), I can say while they dont exactly sound analog, they can do things that you couldnt do with analog. Especially with my JP8000, so much of what I do with it is non analog sounding stuff, since I already have plenty of real analog. I think having a VA in an analog setup is not redundant but actually can compliment your setup. I will say with all honesty, im getting bored with straight up analog, its been done to death.

I dunno about you guys, but im gonna be getting me some older VA's :D.

Re: Vintage VA synths

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:24 pm
by meatballfulton
#-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o

Re: Vintage VA synths

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:53 pm
by Architecture
Hey, alot of people thought analog was s**t in the 80s. Things come full circle you know.

Although nothing does drums better than a 909, I can say that for sure.

Re: Vintage VA synths

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:09 pm
by Solderman
Architecture wrote:I will say with all honesty, im getting bored with straight up analog, its been done to death.
I admire the gall it takes to make that statement on this particular forum, but it's not really a great way to make friends here.

Although I think the distinction of the first analogue modeling goes to the Realizer. I get what you mean though. The overtly formulaic nature of the filters in early VA's, and the tendacy for them to aisle in the upper pitch register give them a character that some people really appreciate. This extends even to pre VSTI software like VAZ modular, Native Instruments Generator and Seer Systems Reality.

Re: Vintage VA synths

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:13 pm
by CS_TBL
Then again, what's "better" ..?

It's a bit like a pair of compasses to draw a circle. A manufacturer of those could say: "my compasses do a perfect circle, and the circle can't be improved by the competition, ever!"

Re: Vintage VA synths

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:25 pm
by Architecture
this inst about whats better, i dont want a flame war regarding that nonsense. Its about using VA's for what they werent meant for, for their non analog nature.

Just like not using a 303 for a bass guitar and 909 for realistic drums.

I wasnt saying VA's are better than RA's. I own a dot com modular, if I didnt like analog I wouldnt use it. I like both apples and oragnes though.

Re: Vintage VA synths

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:33 pm
by Murderhausen
I have a JP8000 that's pretty cool, but the stuff I've really been digging lately is the Nord Lead 3 and Waldorf Blofeld. The Nord Lead 3 has a [pretty] good interface for FM synthesis, and I've had a blast using it with the 5 voice unison and layering FM and VA patches. Then there's the Blofeld... so good. It does VA very well, but also has extremely interesting wavetable synthesis.

Re: Vintage VA synths

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:47 pm
by CS_TBL
Architecture wrote:i dont want a flame war
Learn the difference between "flame war" and "discussion".
I wasnt saying VA's are better than RA's. I own a dot com modular, if I didnt like analog I wouldnt use it. I like both apples and oragnes though.
Nor was I, I wast just saying that your point "Although nothing does drums better than a 909, I can say that for sure." was a non-issue..

A -for example- 909 bass drum is a definition, the definition says "this is a 909 bass drum". You can't improve a definition like that. Because, if you'd define it otherwise, it'd be a different sound. It's not a VA/RA discussion, it's a textual discussion, unrelated to synth-architecture.. :)

Re: "Vintage" VA synths

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:57 pm
by Joey
Architecture wrote: I can say while they dont exactly sound analog, they can do things that you couldnt do with analog. Especially with my JP8000, so much of what I do with it is non analog sounding stuff, since I already have plenty of real analog. I think having a VA in an analog setup is not redundant but actually can compliment your setup. I will say with all honesty, im getting bored with straight up analog, its been done to death.

Image

Re: "Vintage" VA synths

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:00 pm
by LucB
I'm not even sure there's matter to discuss here.

VAs aren't NAs, everybody seems clear about that so therefore they just belong in different realms of appreciation.

I can relate to the 'analog has been done to death' bit, but i can only see this as a challenge, to use them otherwise (i think that's what they were meant for in the first place) and avoiding 'analog clich├ęs' by trying to be as creative as you can be with the controls and features on your RA synths.

For instance, there's a thread discussing synth demos and what they should be or aim at. Often times you'll hear someone demoing a synth or plain making music and immediately recognize sounds, but even processing patterns from classic electro or pop music, like those obvious filter sweep with brilliance/resonance maxed out. It does show that the machine is capable of something most will be able to relate to, but it doesn't give you an idea of what ELSE you could do.

So, to sum up: VA's aren't NA's and that's not a bad thing.

Yo.

Re: "Vintage" VA synths

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:11 pm
by RobotHeroes
Who cares what's been done to death. Is it about using what you want or using what you want to gain acceptance? Only a small percentage of people are going to want to know or can even distinguish what was used on a track.

Great. Buy whatever you want. Older VA's are priced alright unless the seller thinks it's "Vintage". I kind of want to get an MS-2000 again but this time the black one that came with a mic. I still kind of hate that it's 4 voice but when they come around at $350 it's all good.

Re: "Vintage" VA synths

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:44 pm
by Architecture
the waldrof blofield is getting me a bit curious as well, just not quite sure about its interface. id hate to use a computer to edit it.

I guess what I have been trying to say was that VA's that arent exactly good at producing analog emulations seem to do things differently enough from analog that they can be used as a strong point if you get creative with it.

h**l, Im trying to make my andromeda A6 do digital sounding pads, I have a patch on it that does it right, but damn its confusing to program good unique pads on it, especially when it comes to all the modulation abilities.

Re: "Vintage" VA synths

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:09 am
by plikestechno
If you are thinking of a Blofeld as a VA, I'd much more recommend a used Waldorf Q rack. Way more instant control and way better quality.

As far as vintage VAs that have reached classic status...approx. ten years old, lots of people loving them and buying them being the prerequisite you'd have to say...

Yamaha AN1X and CS6X
Roland JP8080/8000
Waldorf Q
Korg MS2000
Nord lead, lead 2 and Modular/micromodular
Quasimidi Polymorph
Novation Basstation and K-Station

If you like the VA sound and want one in your rig you can't really go wrong with any of these. They've stood the test of their "brief" time.

Personally, I am not a big VA fan. The AN engine in my EX5R is good enough for me. I sold my Q to buy an Octave Cat SRM and I think I would have sold it eventually anyway. While I like what it does, it's most def a VA and I'm more of a just A kind of guy.

Re: "Vintage" VA synths

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:12 am
by masstronaut
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be. ;)

Things cycle quicker don't they, like it's all a spiral man, or maybe a double helix or something...

I like the sound of the original Nord Mods (I guess the Lead sounds more or less the same), and it's obviously not analogue but does also now sound 'classic' in it's own right.

Re: "Vintage" VA synths

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:32 am
by Architecture
masstronaut wrote:Nostalgia ain't what it used to be. ;)

Things cycle quicker don't they, like it's all a spiral man, or maybe a double helix or something...

I like the sound of the original Nord Mods (I guess the Lead sounds more or less the same), and it's obviously not analogue but does also now sound 'classic' in it's own right.
Yea thats what im talking about. They have a certian character to them that distinguishes themselves from a normal analog synth. I guess you could say its the character that I like about them, and exploiting the character of them is what I was talking about.