New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

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Re: New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

Post by maindeglorie » Fri May 29, 2009 5:10 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:
jaypodesta wrote:Unless this is just a pshop mock up - they look very similar:
Were you expecting them to look different apart from the line on the knobs? They swapped from using rotary encoders to using pots, they're both small round things that you move by twisting, how different can they look? Or were you thinking they might have redesigned the whole UI?
Thank God they didn't. Otherwise it wouldn't be only $300 to convert!
I do wish they had a "move your wheel to the proper spot kit" though. :lol:

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Re: New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

Post by jaypodesta » Fri May 29, 2009 7:06 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:
jaypodesta wrote:Unless this is just a pshop mock up - they look very similar:
Were you expecting them to look different apart from the line on the knobs?
Yes
Stab Frenzy wrote:They swapped from using rotary encoders to using pots, they're both small round things that you move by twisting, how different can they look?
:lol: Rounder... who knows and quite frankly who really cares. But..

..And although I have absolutely no intention of trawling this or any other site to back this up - IIRC a number of people also complained about the "flimsy prophet '08 knobs"... therefore (and only if you the believe everything you read on "on teh internets" :wink: ) some peoples perception is that the knobs on the P'08 are shite... so if you release a new version of the synth, with amazing new knobs - why not make 'em look vastly different from "shite ones" (or source a new style) and change peoples perception of them completely.

Otherwise your just gonna get people saying 'Ok they are now potentiometers but still the flimsy shite P'08 ones' :wink:

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Re: New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sat May 30, 2009 3:30 am

jaypodesta wrote:..And although I have absolutely no intention of trawling this or any other site to back this up - IIRC a number of people also complained about the "flimsy prophet '08 knobs"... therefore (and only if you the believe everything you read on "on teh internets" :wink: ) some peoples perception is that the knobs on the P'08 are shite... so if you release a new version of the synth, with amazing new knobs - why not make 'em look vastly different from "shite ones" (or source a new style) and change peoples perception of them completely.

Otherwise your just gonna get people saying 'Ok they are now potentiometers but still the flimsy shite P'08 ones' :wink:
I imagine the new pots have plastic shafts just like the old rotaries have, and will feel the same. I haven't seen a P08PE so I don't know for sure, but with half the controls remaining encoders it would be weird if the pots felt different.

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Re: New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

Post by jaypodesta » Sat May 30, 2009 10:38 am

Stab Frenzy wrote: I haven't seen a P08PE so I don't know for sure, but with half the controls remaining encoders it would be weird if the pots felt different.
That's a very good point.

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Re: New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

Post by goldphinga » Sat May 30, 2009 11:10 am

I got my PE 2 days ago. Its feels solid throughout.

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Re: New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

Post by iProg » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:27 am

Looks very P-600...

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Re: New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

Post by Pinky Marvin » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:56 pm

I hope Dave offers the same option for the Evolver keyboard.... :twisted:

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Re: New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

Post by iProg » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:52 am

How much legal pot is included in the kit? Do you also get a DSI lighter?

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Re: New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

Post by pflosi » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:55 pm

what i hate most about encoders it that it takes about 3 turns to sweep through the whole range. why doesnt anyone produce encoders that take 1 round for the whole range? that would delete the constraints of relative mode pots (minimum / maximum might not be minimum / maximum, one turn in the other direction and back again...), but also eliminate that annoying 3times round for one filter sweep...

but basically, i wouldnt mind if all synths were passtrough pots...

yeah i love pot :lol:

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Re: New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:17 am

pflosi wrote:what i hate most about encoders it that it takes about 3 turns to sweep through the whole range. why doesnt anyone produce encoders that take 1 round for the whole range?
Rotary encoders work by having two switches, when you turn one way one switch closes and then the other one does, turn it the other direction and the second switch closes first, followed by the first one. Most rotary encoders have 30 or less 'clicks' per rotation so that the microprocessor that's scanning them doesn't miss a click when the knob's turned really quickly and get confused and start going backwards. You can put things like velocity sensing into the decoding so that turning the knob faster increments/decrements values more than one at a time but you still end up with more than one rotation to sweep values over their full range. I actually like that, because it makes it easier to get the exact value you want.

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Re: New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

Post by Shreddie » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:39 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:
pflosi wrote:what i hate most about encoders it that it takes about 3 turns to sweep through the whole range. why doesnt anyone produce encoders that take 1 round for the whole range?
Rotary encoders work by having two switches, when you turn one way one switch closes and then the other one does, turn it the other direction and the second switch closes first, followed by the first one. Most rotary encoders have 30 or less 'clicks' per rotation so that the microprocessor that's scanning them doesn't miss a click when the knob's turned really quickly and get confused and start going backwards. You can put things like velocity sensing into the decoding so that turning the knob faster increments/decrements values more than one at a time but you still end up with more than one rotation to sweep values over their full range. I actually like that, because it makes it easier to get the exact value you want.
Not many these days are like that, Alpha dials (for data entry) yes but encoders, no. Some encoders do use a similar paradigm to that but use an optical wheel the same as old fashioned mice used to use instead of switches... Many optical encoders do have poor resolution though.

Most encoders these days are kinda like endless pots with a continuous contact... Many encoders use two or three of these contacts layered up but out of phase.

In the diagnostics on my Fusion, I can see that it is a three contact (called 'wiper' in the Fusion) type used for it's four encoder knobs.

Form the graphical display, I can see that wiper 1 is a linear type, going from 0 to 100% then immediately back to zero. Wiper 2 uses a triangle type waveform, going from 0 to 100% then back down to 0. Wiper 3 is the same as but about 90 degrees out of phase to wiper 2 IIRC.

As for synths which do sweep through the entire range in one turn (or less). My Fusion, EX7 and FS1R all do that... In fact, the encoders on my EX7 are marked as knobs and may be used as such depending on what operating mode you set them to... They even have a center detent!

The markings on the knobs are difficult to see but you should just about be able make them out in this pic.

Image

Why some modern synths have stupid numbers of turns to do a full sweep is beyond me. There absolutely no excuse or need for it these days... Unless they're cutting corners of course. :roll:

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Re: New DSI Prophet '08 POT EDITION

Post by DocT » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:32 am

Pinky Marvin wrote:I hope Dave offers the same option for the Evolver keyboard.... :twisted:
Do you really think that it would be fun to edit the Evolvers with pots instead of encoders? There are more knobs with multiple functions on the Evolver kryboards than knobs with single functions.

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