Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

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Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by HideawayStudio » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:50 pm

Korg! - What were you thinking of! I spent much of today rediscovering some of my older synths in the studio and have come to the conclusion I really love most of what I have here. The Wavestation is great but why oh why did they produce such an organic synth with no filters to warm it up - D'oh!

I found an old recording of mine I made when I first got my beloved Wavestation A/D. The following is a rough improvisation made using just the A/D in a single take by walking through layered voices within a single patch. Despite it being a little rough I'm still wondering how I managed to pull this one off without descending into chaos! (and no it's not tape hiss - sadly the A/D can be a little noisy... it's off one of my old DAT masters)

http://www.last.fm/music/D.A.Wilson/_/W ... ?autostart

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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by Analogue Crazy » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:53 pm

Yes it's a real shame Korg didn't include a resonant filter in thier Wavestation, it's a massive shame as it's one of the most increadible sounding instruments at times. Interestingly their other ROMples of the time, including the M1, lacked a resonant filter. I hope they learned thier lession from these. :)
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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by madtheory » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:15 pm

Ya, they did fix it, in the Legacy editon :) No hiss either...

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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by Ashe37 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:20 am

I'll chime in here and say its also too bad that Ensoniq didn't put one on the VFX (or anything in the family for that matter)

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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by jupiter8 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:35 am

It actually has a resonant filter in the FX section. I remember using it for a bass sound. It can even be modulated. Obviously it'll only work monophonically. I agree that was the big thing missing.

Funny because i can't imagine it'll save much dsp power so i'm not sure why they omitted it.

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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by Synthaholic » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:11 pm

AFAIK resonance needed more DSP power than was readily available in synths back then.

My 01/W didn't have resonant filters either.

I think the first digital Korg to have resonant filters was the Prodigy or Trinity or something like that.

The Roland D-50 has resonance, but its implementation of a "filter" is non-conventional to say the least, and it's only available on the synth waveforms.
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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by jupiter8 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:47 am

Synthaholic wrote:AFAIK resonance needed more DSP power than was readily available in synths back then.

My 01/W didn't have resonant filters either.

I think the first digital Korg to have resonant filters was the Prodigy or Trinity or something like that.

The Roland D-50 has resonance, but its implementation of a "filter" is non-conventional to say the least, and it's only available on the synth waveforms.
That makes no sense. Feedback in itself is just a multiply and an addition. The big work is updating the filter coefficients. Much more work. And as you already mentioned the D50 has resonant filters and should be good deal slower than a wavestation DSPwise.

And what's so unconventional about the d50s filter ? Other than you can only use it on synth waveforms which is one of the biggest mysteries in synthland. Why on earth is that ?

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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by sensorium » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:33 am

HideawayStudio wrote:The Wavestation is great but why oh why did they produce such an organic synth with no filters to warm it up - D'oh!
That must have been the same thought Sequential had before they designed the Prophet VS.

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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by Ashe37 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:11 am

So, how do we fix this, preferably without spending a bundle? What can we do for an external resonant LPF- preferably stereo? (btw, buying two moogerfoogers is spending a little much)

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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:59 am

sensorium wrote:
HideawayStudio wrote:The Wavestation is great but why oh why did they produce such an organic synth with no filters to warm it up - D'oh!
That must have been the same thought Sequential had before they designed the Prophet VS.
That's an interesting point actually, seeing as the Prophet VS team was largely responsible for the Wavestation. In fact the Wavestation could be seen as a direct descendant of the VS.

I'm sure at the time they weren't all that concerned with 'warming the sound up' as much as they were with eliminating all the expensive analogue components to reduce costs and therefore make the synth available to more people and make more money.

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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by iProg » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:09 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:
sensorium wrote:
HideawayStudio wrote:The Wavestation is great but why oh why did they produce such an organic synth with no filters to warm it up - D'oh!
That must have been the same thought Sequential had before they designed the Prophet VS.
That's an interesting point actually, seeing as the Prophet VS team was largely responsible for the Wavestation. In fact the Wavestation could be seen as a direct descendant of the VS.

I'm sure at the time they weren't all that concerned with 'warming the sound up' as much as they were with eliminating all the expensive analogue components to reduce costs and therefore make the synth available to more people and make more money.
Although the VS excels the WS as a synthesizer...

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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by futureworlder » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:52 pm

Ashe37 wrote:So, how do we fix this, preferably without spending a bundle? What can we do for an external resonant LPF- preferably stereo? (btw, buying two moogerfoogers is spending a little much)
this:

Image

stereo multimode filter with MIDI sync-able LFO (with clock divider for LFO pulse rate) and all knobs send MIDI data, so you can record sweeps, etc.

Electrix went under, then came back, then finally changed their business model and now sell high-end lighting systems; no more music gear, so you can only get these NOS or used, but they're cheaper than Moogerfoogers and much more versatile. Oh, and the analog section responds to CV/Gate as well. They're also built like tanks and stand up well to gigging and touring.

more info here:

http://www.vintagesynth.com/misc/electrixfilter.php

cheers.
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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by idiotboy » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:55 pm

or this:

Image

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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by Synthaholic » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:41 pm

jupiter8 wrote:And what's so unconventional about the d50s filter ? Other than you can only use it on synth waveforms which is one of the biggest mysteries in synthland. Why on earth is that ?
Because it isn't a true filter, which takes an input signal and "filters" it (if it was, then it could work on the PCM waves). Instead, it's just part of the algorithm used to generate the saw/pulse waveforms. There's a block diagram shown in the D-50 manual. Whatever way they used to do it allowed them to implement resonance and keep it within the limited DSP power. It's also what gives the D-50 synth waveforms their distinctive sound.

There have been discussions in the past here about it...
Two VCO: thanks to the push rods, one can choose several forms of waves at the same time!
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Re: Such a Shame theWavestation Didn't Have Resonant LP Filters!

Post by pricklyrobot » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:35 am

Another fun, cheap, stereo analog filter:
Image
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