Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
Post Reply
User avatar
Yatmandu
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:57 pm
Gear: reverse
Location: Oith

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by Yatmandu » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:43 pm

nvbrkr wrote:I'm not going to even try typing "Access Virus" or "Korg MS2000" because I can predict what I am mostly going to get.
Very convenient, picking a CS-15 as your only example. Typical. First of all, how many people actually own a fully working CS-<anything>? Try the same with something not quite as rare. Try the same with a Korg MS-20, a Prophet, some modulars, some Rolands, Moogs. And who said anything about cheesy club dance music. Do I point to some relic boy band as representative of non-techno use of synths? My definition of techno includes beatless ambient (Testou Innoue, Gas, etc...) as well as experimental (IDM, 90's).

Name me a genre of music, other than techno, that has inspired and *is* inspiring every day the use of synths (and not just rare vintage ones). Go ahead, make my day!

User avatar
Yatmandu
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:57 pm
Gear: reverse
Location: Oith

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by Yatmandu » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:47 pm

Soundwave wrote:You'll find big find dance/techno producers who use analogue synths these days tend to record loads of tweaks and loops then edit it all down later.

Modern dance music is more about creative digital editing and production than original synth sounds these days unless your Ceephax or RDJ sneaking out a little retro electro track under some alias. 8)
Who defined "use of a synthesizer" == "real time performance"? Who decided inspiration only comes from a real time performance?

User avatar
Soundwave
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:36 pm

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by Soundwave » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:59 pm

Yatmandu wrote:
Who defined "use of a synthesizer" == "real time performance"? Who decided inspiration only comes from a real time performance?


I don't know who?
:-s

What exactly are you trying to say here? :scratch:

User avatar
Yatmandu
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:57 pm
Gear: reverse
Location: Oith

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by Yatmandu » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:05 pm

Soundwave wrote:
Yatmandu wrote:
Who defined "use of a synthesizer" == "real time performance"? Who decided inspiration only comes from a real time performance?


I don't know who?
:-s

What exactly are you trying to say here? :scratch:
Sorry, I'm on a rant, and I'm foaming at the mouth, with a mad-like stare like that RDJ cover! :twisted:

User avatar
otto
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1571
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:00 pm
Location: Utah

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by otto » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:18 pm

Yatmandu, you seem to have either missed my last post or are avoiding answering it as I see you've moved on to later posts.

As far as Yamaha CS’s go, a lot of people own them, they are not uncommon and they seem to be fairly reliable. I had a CS-30L at one point.
hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again

nvbrkr
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:14 pm
Gear: An electric piano and analog synths.
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by nvbrkr » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:24 pm

Yatmandu wrote:First of all, how many people actually own a fully working CS-<anything>?
Probably thousands.

The youtube clips that I usually watch are the ones of those units that people are currently trying to sell in this area. At this moment on the top page for our local sales ads there's a Yamaha CS-40m and a CS-30. I don't see the old Yamaha synths as that particularily rare, at least no in this part of the world. They are certainly more common than something like the Korg MS-series synths, which usually aren't even used for techno unless the users have Korg's own sequencer as well.

So what was the point of this experiment anyway? Weren't we allowed to "pick any synth"? Were we just allowed to pick synths that can be used easily together with a sequencer to prove your own point?
[My definition of techno includes beatless ambient (Testou Innoue, Gas, etc...) as well as experimental (IDM, 90's).
Then you're just basically clueless if you count beatless ambient and experimental as techno music.

For example, a whole lot of "beatless ambient" records that have been released during the last decade are actually closely associated to the Black Metal movement, or to industrial. Long ambient passages also serve as a meeting point for many of the more marginal and abstract genres of music. I'd see IDM as somewhat separated from what most people would understand as "techno", and so would many of the artists themselves (I've made glitch myself when it was still fashionable).
Name me a genre of music, other than techno, that has inspired and *is* inspiring every day the use of synths (and not just rare vintage ones). Go ahead, make my day!
Easy, pop.

Perhaps I didn't understand this one in the sense you intended, because it was a bit too easy to provide a reply to. It would seem to correspond to your articulated demands though.

User avatar
Yatmandu
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:57 pm
Gear: reverse
Location: Oith

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by Yatmandu » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:36 pm

nvbrkr wrote: Then you're just basically clueless if you count beatless ambient and experimental as techno music.
I assure you that in terms of possession of clues, I outnumber you by a wide margin... :lol: :mrgreen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno

http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/music.swf

User avatar
Soundwave
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:36 pm

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by Soundwave » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:45 pm

nvbrkr wrote:
Yatmandu wrote:
[My definition of techno includes beatless ambient (Testou Innoue, Gas, etc...) as well as experimental (IDM, 90's).
Then you're just basically clueless if you count beatless ambient and experimental as techno music.

For example, a whole lot of "beatless ambient" records that have been released during the last decade are actually closely associated to the Black Metal movement, or to industrial. Long ambient passages also serve as a meeting point for many of the more marginal and abstract genres of music. I'd see IDM as somewhat separated from what most people would understand as "techno", and so would many of the artists themselves (I've made glitch myself when it was still fashionable).
Name me a genre of music, other than techno, that has inspired and *is* inspiring every day the use of synths (and not just rare vintage ones). Go ahead, make my day!
Technically speaking the "beatless ambient" mentioned here did all come from dance/techno culture which then evolved into the chillout Ibiza and lounge music i.e. party hard on extacy/LSD then smoke a spliff, chill out and come down. The two go hand in hand and the symbyotic relationship is very fundamental to the scene as a whole.
If this wasn't the case we'd be talking about Eno, Roach, rich, Schulze ect.

Most modern ambient/minimalist comes more from (as mentioned) experimental digital producers (Tim Hecker, Biosphere, Alvo Noto) but I think the Black Metal Thing is few and far between methinks.

User avatar
Yatmandu
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:57 pm
Gear: reverse
Location: Oith

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by Yatmandu » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:04 pm

otto wrote:Yatmandu, you seem to have either missed my last post or are avoiding answering it as I see you've moved on to later posts.

As far as Yamaha CS’s go, a lot of people own them, they are not uncommon and they seem to be fairly reliable. I had a CS-30L at one point.
Fair enough. They seemed rare to me, because I've never seen any for sale locally, whereas I see regular ads for Korg MS-20's for instance.

User avatar
Yatmandu
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:57 pm
Gear: reverse
Location: Oith

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by Yatmandu » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:10 pm

Soundwave wrote:
Technically speaking the "beatless ambient" mentioned here did all come from dance/techno culture which then evolved into the chillout Ibiza and lounge music i.e. party hard on extacy/LSD then smoke a spliff, chill out and come down. The two go hand in hand and the symbyotic relationship is very fundamental to the scene as a whole.
If this wasn't the case we'd be talking about Eno, Roach, rich, Schulze ect.

Most modern ambient/minimalist comes more from (as mentioned) experimental digital producers (Tim Hecker, Biosphere, Alvo Noto) but I think the Black Metal Thing is few and far between methinks.
Yeah, I was really not referring to Eno/Roach when I mentioned ambient. You know what I meant. Although, I bought a few Biosphere CD's in the 90's under the usual ambient/techno section of my local store, so I would include him on the "techno" side of ambient. But what exactly is the "Black Metal Thing"? I definitely have no clue when it comes to that!

User avatar
JJQ
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Malmo, east-side

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by JJQ » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:13 pm

What do you mean with Biosphere=digital producer?

Contemporary ambient is defenetly a part of the techno-scene. Lady Gaga is not. But p**n...
Gear: Minimoog, Mother-32, Roland MC-202, TB-303, (Boss) DR-110, TR-505, TR-808, Alpha Juno 2, Jupiter-8, Oberheim SEM, .com/oakley/moon/mos-lab/STG/Sputnik/MegaOhm-modular & Microbrute

User avatar
otto
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1571
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:00 pm
Location: Utah

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by otto » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:28 pm

Yatmandu wrote:
otto wrote:Yatmandu, you seem to have either missed my last post or are avoiding answering it as I see you've moved on to later posts.

As far as Yamaha CS’s go, a lot of people own them, they are not uncommon and they seem to be fairly reliable. I had a CS-30L at one point.
Fair enough. They seemed rare to me, because I've never seen any for sale locally, whereas I see regular ads for Korg MS-20's for instance.
Still conveniently avoiding my earlier post? I'll just post a poll myself then...
hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again

nvbrkr
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:14 pm
Gear: An electric piano and analog synths.
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by nvbrkr » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:32 pm

To quote myself:
"For example, a whole lot of "beatless ambient" records that have been released during the last decade are actually closely associated to the Black Metal movement, or to industrial".
Seeing it appear only in the context of techno - or its variants - is very shortsighted. Many "beatless ambient" artists do not even want to see themselves being linked to techno in any context (many loathe it, rather). The original comment by Yatmandu only referred to "beatleass ambient" in his own post, I responded to that expression used as it was put in too narrow context.

OT: As far as the ambient records associated with black metal and industrial go, it's far from a small movement. It's quite obvious that something like that would escape the radar of most folks who post on this forum, but there's been more Dark Ambient released during this decade than anyone could possible have time to listen through. Industrial artists were making ambient records long before anyone had even thought about associating Ibiza with electronic music. There are also ambient tracks included on. I would say, most industrial records released these days. The first ambient works by black metal artists were done around 1992-1993, so they came later on. Releases by labels such as Cold Meat Industry, Cold Spring and Loki Foundation seem to attract both audiences - there's tons of CD-R / tape and free myspace material around as well. Some would link my own more recent musical escapades to this genre.

Back on topic: This probably underlines how people are more inclined to interpret certain concepts strongly from their own immediate experience: when someone says "ambient" my own first associations would be Eno type of material and the dark ambient -end of things. When someone simply says "synths" they are inclined to think of it primarily in the context that they personally favour - I surely don't hear a 303 sequence or a Virus trance lead as the first thing in my head when I hear that word. Likewise, "disco" to some refers primarily to Moroder or something similar, not the more popular form of soul / funk music from the late 70s mixed with an open hihat.

By the way, wikipedia articles for genres are pretty notorious. I wouldn't link them in order to try to prove anything, although doing a page search for the word "ambient" on that specific page link only resulted in two hits for "ambient techno" and one additional on the references. What was the intention of providing this link again? Of course, techno has had a big influence on the interest of analog synths, but people interested in these genres have usually a very narrow-minded view of the history of the use of electronics in music. I've listened through academic presentations where they have linked even the goddamn theremin pretty efforlessly to dance music because it was "basically the first electronic instrument". Nice.

User avatar
JJQ
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Malmo, east-side

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by JJQ » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:48 pm

Not only wikpedia but last.fm has "Boards of Canada, Brian Eno, Aphex Twin, Moby, Biosphere" as top search words.
Actualy I think the dark (metal) ambient isnt such a huge influential gengre. Perhaps it is in the notorious metal-countries Finland and Norway.
Gear: Minimoog, Mother-32, Roland MC-202, TB-303, (Boss) DR-110, TR-505, TR-808, Alpha Juno 2, Jupiter-8, Oberheim SEM, .com/oakley/moon/mos-lab/STG/Sputnik/MegaOhm-modular & Microbrute

User avatar
Yatmandu
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:57 pm
Gear: reverse
Location: Oith

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Post by Yatmandu » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:00 pm

otto wrote: If you want a fairly objective statistic on this question, do a poll right here on VSE. This forum is actually a perfect place because it isn’t motivated by a style of music but rather a general interest in synthesizers, analog and vintage in particular. Just make sure your question is fair and not misleading. You’ll probably want to give the poll a long length to get the largest sample as VSE isn’t particularly busy at the moment.
Did you mean this? I did miss it. Sorry, I tend to not read every single post especially if there's been a lot of activity. How would I word it? Not really sure, as everyone's definition of "techno" or "edm" is different.

Which musical genre today is responsible for generating the most interest in the synthesizer?

a. Polish Polkas
b. Industrial
c. Punk
d. Pop
e. Techno (Yatmandu's definition of techno which includes beatless ambient among all the other subgenres)
f. Classical
g. Ska
h. Metal
i. Indonesian Gamelan
j. Rock
k. Trout

Is this OK?

Post Reply